Barrett Blogs
2019 BSM Summit – Day 1
“The key takeaways from Day 1 of the 2019 BSM Summit .”

Published
4 years agoon

We are in Los Angeles for Day 1 of the 2019 BSM Summit. Over 60 speakers are scheduled to take the stage over this two-day event, and more than 130 media professionals have invaded The Grammy Museum to gain new ideas, insights, and information from the brightest minds in sports media.
BSM would like to extend a special thank you to its corporate partners for the 2019 BSM Summit: Premiere Radio Networks, ESPN, Hubbard Radio, PodcastOne, Compass Media Networks, Harker Research, and Benztown Branding.
We will continue updating this blog throughout the first day of the conference. You will notice the full schedule is laid out below. As each session concludes we will pass along the key notes and quotes that industry folks will gain the greatest value from.
9:00AM – Opening Remarks
Jason Barrett – President, Barrett Sports Media
Jason welcomes the speakers and attendees to the second annual BSM Summit, and emphasizes the need to grow the sports radio format. What the next 2 days will provide is an abundance of ideas and information which he hopes will be valuable to station leaders in further elevating the performance of their brands.
9:10AM-9:40AM – The Past, Present & Future of Sports Radio
Presented By:
Don Martin – SVP of FOX Sports Radio
Anything that takes the audience away from us is our competition. The industry needs to work together rather than only focus on beating each other.
My ratings are only there to drive revenue, but if we’re going after the younger audience, we need to acknowledge they’re not only listening on terrestrial radio anymore. If we’re going to reach the masses with a play-by-play broadcast, we need to find them on different platforms, not just AM radio.
We need to go younger, find gender equity and get more diverse. Teams still need to be on radio for Generation X, but you need to grow other platforms for the Millennial’s because one day, all teams will be digital, and not on terrestrial radio.
Mitch Rosen – PD of 670 The Score
Mitch wakes up in the morning asking what can we do better, how can we be better than our local competition? We can have 15 – 20,000 listeners through steaming, but that doesn’t matter to Nielsen.
For the industry to advance we need to move in the direction of TLR, Total Line Reporting. In order to have a successful sports radio station, you need a play-by-play team. The Cubs have been great for The Score and won a championship their first year on the station, but there are times you need to be more creative on the broadcast.
Dan Zampillo – ESPN LA 710 Operations Manager
Dan wants the most amount of people listening for the longest amount of time. Everything that takes the audience away from us is competition. We can’t be narrow with our content. Is what we’re doing on-air going to get the largest audience?
The entertainment value for play-by-play has to be there. Story-telling, personality, and being entertaining is still vital. Getting the nuts and bolts of play-by-play is important, but it still comes back to relating to people, and being funny and personable.
9:40AM-10:10AM – Programming Strategies For a Changing World
Warren Kurtzman – President, Coleman Insights
Outside thinkers like radio, they use radio, but they don’t care about it in the grand scheme of their lives. They might not notice a change to the station’s lineup. Inside thinkers will notice every change.
The hierarchy of radio is selecting music or talk, personality, specialty programming, contests, marketing, news and community. What combination of sports should you be talking about, what teams generate listeners, what role should niche sports play?
Finding the brand essence of your station is critical, are you straight sports talk? Or is your station more personality driven. Finding balance is the art of programming, you can have content, but is it right for your branding?
Based on research, breaking sports news is the most important thing listeners want from their local radio station.
Research in a select market showed more than half of listeners gamble on sports, even if it’s a small amount. If gambling was legalized in their state, 31% said they would gamble more. About half of the listeners said they do not want to hear hosts talking about gambling.
A study in a select market showed more than half of the audience was not interested in hearing about esports, but 43% expressed interest in attending an esports event.
10:10AM-10:45AM – The Rise of Voice and Podcasting
Steven Goldstein – CEO, Amplifi Media
Goldstein’s 20-year old son loves sports, as do his friends, they listen to Barstool and podcasts, they’re not aware of the local terrestrial sports radio shows.
Radios are no longer in homes, people have smart speakers and other ways to listen to digital programming easily, which might include your radio station, but it also includes hundreds of thousands other stations and podcasts.
One in four Americans listen to podcasts. The medium age of podcast listeners is 34, the medium age for AM/FM listening is 46. ESPN’s podcast medium is 13 years younger than it’s broadcast medium.
Maybe eSports isn’t ready for an hour of content on a sports radio station, but it might be perfect for a podcast. That’s the type of brand-extension everyone in this room should be thinking about.
Downloads of your show might look great, but 100,000 downloads in one month can translate to just 1,650 extra listeners.
Young listeners expect audio on demand. If they listen to audio on their iPhone and your audio is not there, you’re losing a potential audience. It needs to be on demand and easy to access, they don’t want to download your specific app.
10:45AM-11:15AM – Remaining Relevant
Moderated by Brian Long – PD, XTRA Sports 1360/News Radio 600 KOGO
Steve Mason – Midday Host, ESPN LA 710
Our show from years ago would be unrecognizable to what it is today. We used to be very guest heavy, about three years ago our boss challenged us to do a show with no guests and no calls. The show is about the hosts, people want to know how we are going to react to things. It’s more work to do the show this way, but the show has developed to where we now rarely take calls or have guests.
Coming out as gay was not a big deal. Steve didn’t want it to be a big deal. “I don’t want to be the gay sports talk show host, I want to be the sports talk show host who happens to be gay.” Mason said he felt left out, John gets to talk about his wife and family and that was absent from Mason on-air. Mason had been with his partner for 13 years and thought it was time to be completely authentic. As much as Twitter can be an ugly place, Mason said he never received a negative comment after coming out.
John Ireland – Midday Host, ESPN LA 710
In terms of being an employee of the Lakers as their play-by-play voice, there are things I can’t say, but Steve can still say anything. He can make a point that if I said it, I would get a phone call.
One of the by-products of Steve coming out was we realized it was not a big deal. I knew he was gay, I encouraged him to come out a lot earlier than he did, but it had to feel right for him, Steve and his partner had to be comfortable with it. But I was happy for him.
11:15AM-11:50AM – Audio’s Path to Digital Dollars
Presented By:
Norm Pattiz – Chairman, PodcastOne
Norm discussed PodcastOne’s relationship with Hubbard. He says that Hubbard does a great job of selling podcast performance to their clients, but admits the program is only in beta right now.
He sees the growth of the podcasting industry as “remarkably similar” to syndicated radio. “First we evangelize then we strategize.”
He tells the story of the creation of Podcast One. It was born at a Laker game, because his season tickets are next to Ari Emmanuel’s. After the pitch meeting with Ari’s company, other agents started calling him to learn more about the idea. They instantly recognized the value of having their clients own their own media.
Patrick Polking – ESPN Radio
Patrick notes that ESPN’s audience for its podcasting is the youngest segment of its audience. He notes that the audience for podcasts is coming from all over ESPN.
He is asked about a paid model for podcasts. Patrick says that if ESPN were to charge $1 every time someone wanted to download Le Batard that the podcast would make more money, but that wouldn’t serve ESPN’s overall goals. They’d also make more money operating the way they do now.
Matt Kramer – Agent, CAA Sports
Matt builds on the idea that his clients see value in owning their own media. He says that his clients tend to notice more when someone on the street stops them to say they like the client’s podcast than to say “I saw you on ESPN last night.”
Kelli Hurley – VP, Digital Sales, Westwood One
Kelli discusses the appeal of podcasting to talent. She says that it is great to have so many big names interested in the industry, but the people that succeed are the ones that understand what an intimate medium it is and that they have to create a personal connection with their listeners.
When asked about the conversion rate for advertising dollars on a podcast, Kelli notes that podcasters are influencers. Their audience trusts them and their recommendations.
Evan Cohen – VP of Content, Good Karma Brands
Evan discusses Good Karma’s TheLandOnDemand.com, a local subscription site that supplements ESPN 850 in Cleveland. He says that it has served the company in a number of ways. Not only is it something of a farm system to groom young talent, it also creates a new bonus revenue stream for talent who’s digital content performs well.
11:50AM-12:20PM – The Jeff Smulyan Award Presentation
Presented By:
Rick Cummings – President, Programming, Emmis Communications
Rick admitted he thought Jeff’s idea of an all-sports radio station was a bad idea and for the first 18 months it was. But Don Imus joined the station’s morning show, Mike Francesa and Christopher Russo were added to the afternoons, and FAN turned into a major success story.
Rick has been with Jeff at Emmis for 38 years and notes, you don’t stay with somebody for 38 years because of the paycheck, you stay because you believe.
Jeff Smulyan – CEO, Emmis Communications
“I’m glad this award is named in my honor and not my memory. About a mile and a half from The Grammy Museum is where the idea for sports radio came about. It took place at USC where Jeff was attending.
The line between being a genius and an idiot is very fine. When FAN was losing money Jeff was an idiot, but here we are decades later and he’s seen as a genius.
Jeff said he never expected sports radio to get as big as it is today. He’s glad it has and is honored to have an award named in his honor and for Kraig Kitchin to be its first recipient.
Kraig Kitchin – CEO, SoundMind/Chairman, National Radio HOF
We all owe a great bit of gratitude to Jeff for creating the format. We should not be pointing our guns at each other, but we should point them out and work together to as an industry grow and improve. The success of Premiere was due to the hard work of a lot of people. Kraig says he’s thrilled to have been a small part of it.
1:30PM-2:05PM – The Conversation with Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd – FOX Sports Radio/FOX Sports 1
Colin says he doesn’t think he’s any different than anybody in this room that loves what they do. If you have to tell someone to do something, then it’s not for them. He decided when he was 8 years old that he wanted to be the next Howard Cosell.
Colin says he likes to listen to different radio shows on his way into work for about 20 minutes. Evan Cohen’s program on SiriusXM is one of the shows he turns to, He also thinks Joe Fortenbaugh is very talented. Colin isn’t listening for their takes, he is interested in their topics. Whatever he feels really confident about or if he has something funny to add, that’s what he’ll lead with, even if it’s not the biggest topic.
Colin points out that he used to be more fear based, wanting to prove people wrong. Now he’s more joy based. He acknowledged that he was hard to work for and hard to work with, now he’s more secure and likes to help other people, especially upcoming broadcasters.
About once a year, he’ll stare at the camera and say “Oh for God’s sake, I have nothing to say, and three minutes left to go.” In radio, you can get stuck and push through it and at ESPN I did a radio show that was put on TV, but now he’s in a TV studio performing for the camera where it forces him to think about the TV audience.
Colin says he’s not in the radio or TV business, he’s in the interesting business. His goal is to be interesting. He’ll try to get it right, but isn’t as worried about if he is or isn’t right. His mother used to tell him, “you know when I really like your show? When you’re not talking sports.” I try to appeal to my mom and not just the sports fan.
His views on podcasting are that it’s a solid space, but it’s tough to monetize. He doesn’t think you can put podcasting behind a paywall. Anybody can have a podcast, but 95% of them don’t make money.
Jason Barrett notes that Cowherd created his own podcast network and has a few shows hosted by people he thinks are talented, Barrett asks how do those podcasts get to the next level? “Hell if I know” added Cowherd.
I’m never loyal to a sport or platform, I’m loyal to my audience. I love college football, it’s my favorite sport. I dropped my college football content by 50% this year because Alabama and Clemson are too regional.
My preparation is why I’m here. My voice isn’t great, there are people in this room that know more sports than I do. I know enough about sports, but my preparation is what makes me successful.
Do not produce your show through Twitter, it’s a fun house mirror as Clay Travis said. Believe in yourself, believe in your prep, believe in your homework. Do not let social media produce your show. Trust yourself, trust your gut. We laugh at social media, we mock it, we never produce our show through social media.
2:05PM-2:40PM – How eSports Fits Into Sports Media
Moderated by Arash Markazi – Columnist/Enterprise Reporter, Los Angeles Times
Ari Segal – CEO, Immortals
When you understand and see the fans’ passion for esports you get it and that’s what traditional sports owners such as the Kroenke’s, Mr. Kraft and the Wilpon’s are seeing when they invest in the industry. There is a generation of sports fans who never threw a ball in their backyard, who never wore a Montana, Elway or Brady jersey. If you go to an event, you see that generation of fans wearing an esports jersey and it’s something they might have never done before.
Jared Jeffries – President, Echo Fox
Everything has to be quick, if the esports audience is just talked at, they’re out. Sports radio can lose esports fans very quickly.
Daniel Cherry – CMO, Activision Blizzard
You need to think about the business model, I think you will see esports covered by one group and picked up by other outlets similar to the AP format. Delivering the right content to the right person at the right time will be the key. The sports talk radio format is very much people giving takes and every once in awhile having people respond. We need to make the sports radio experience more communal, esports fans want to be participating and engaging, not be spoken too.
Sebastian Park -VP of eSports, Houston Rockets/Clutch Gaming
Don’t be afraid to jump in, ask questions and research esports just like you would any other sport. I don’t know if the industry works on sports radio right now, but podcasts have done really well in merging sports radio listeners and esports fans.
2:40PM-3:10PM – Women In Sports Media: The Road Less Traveled
Debbie Spander – Agent, Wasserman Media
A lot of program directors are scared because their audience is mostly men, but they need to view women as a voice, not just as a woman. We haven’t seen a good number of women moving into larger roles. Radio is a great format for women. The goal isn’t to be on TV anymore, the goal is to be in media, to have your voice heard and be consumed.It’s interesting that TV, a more modern media form, hired women much sooner than radio, an older form of media. It’s frustrating that radio isn’t more open minded about who can speak to their audiences.Women want to have an opinion, they want to talk mainstream sports.
Amanda Gifford – Coordinating Producer II, ESPN
It’s an evolution, and maybe 10 years ago women didn’t look at this space as something they wanted to pursue, but as they see other women in the industry, now they look at it as a viable career space. Whether it’s male or female, for sports radio you have to love the format.
Lindsay McCormick – Host, Entrepreneur
Now more than ever we can create our own opportunities. With YouTube, podcasts and different platforms, you can create your own content. Radio can be a very useful tool, it can help you hone your interview and debate skills. If you dismiss that than you’re saying the only think you have to offer is your looks.We assume all of management is male, but there are several female higher-ups in the industry as well. I’ve had males take me under their wing, but if you’re a female not hiring other women then shame on you.
Julie Stewart-Binks – Host, ESPN LA 710
ESPN has done such a good job of promoting personalities. I was doing updates, but knew I wanted more than just 10 seconds. I knew if I worked hard, chipped away and showed people I can do this, I could show my personality and do more than be an anchor and reporter. It’s important for program directors and management to leave their door open. Treat us all the same way, don’t look at women as only being a sideline reporter, I don’t feel good about a role like that, I want to show my personality.
3:10PM-3:45PM – Inside vs. Outside Thinking (The PD’s Perspective)
Moderated by Jason Dixon – Director, Sports Programming, SiriusXM
Justin Craig – Sr. Director, Programming & Operations, ESPN Radio
When we put Trey Wingo on it was someone who was doing TV for 20 years, not radio. Right away he had to realize there is no more visual fonting, he has a radio audience and we had to use an outside approach to think like a listener. I have multiple listening sessions on a daily and weekly basis, we don’t start at the beginning, we start listening in the middle because that’s what our audience does, they don’t listen from beginning to end, we have to think like they do.
Ryan Hatch – VP, Programming, Arizona Sports 98.7/KTAR
The only thing that matters is how you’re serving the audience for what they want right there and then. I think you need to spend a lot less time on the Nielsen side. We have months where our stream is larger than our terrestrial audience, I think it’s going to be less and less looking at Nielsen ratings moving forward.
Scott Shapiro – VP of Programming, FOX Sports Radio
We think this content will fill a segment and this will fit in a market, but we need to think about the audience and make programming decisions based on what the audience wants. Make your imaging promos sound like the audience, if you’re in a diverse market, the imaging should reflect that.Ultimately we’re looking to grow our audience by having the best talent with the most thought-provoking opinions.
Chris Kinard – PD, 106.7 The Fan
It’s not a four hour movie that the audience sits down and consumes from beginning to end. They listen for 20 minutes at a time, they don’t necessarily listen everyday. You need to think about the real world. People are in and out of their car or listening on their phone doing other things at the same time. If we’re starting a sports radio station today, we don’t need a big promotional team and multiple cars, we need a larger digital team. We need to hire update anchors that are social media people, why would you pay someone to sit there for 30 minutes to produce a 60 second update? We have to make tough decisions moving forward, AM/FM is still important, but we need to be creative in how we run our business. I can reach more people sending a Tweet myself than my promotional team can.As a programmer, going on sales calls is still important. You need to be involved in the process to make sure advertisers are reaching your audience.
3:45PM-4:20PM – The New Frontier of Sports Media
Joe Fortenbaugh – Host, 95.7 The Game/The Sharp 600 Podcast
The entire sports gambling industry is moving towards in-game bets. The radio industry in particular has to innovate to keep up.
Brian Musburger – Co-Founder/Chairman, VSiN
The demos for VSIN are largely split amongst ages, but are overwhelmingly male. They strive to have credibility with people that follow algorithms, but they recognize the need to teach people how to gamble.
Picks are the least interesting part of a sports betting conversation. VSIN prefers to focus on the guys setting the line and find out why the number is what it is. By following the factors that move the numbers, you are creating analysis.
The leagues’ positions on gambling will continue to evolve. Veiled references will continue to exist on game broadcasts, but the traditional broadcast will always be for a general audience. This will lead to more alternate feeds of the biggest leagues and games.
Chad Millman – Head of Media, The Action Network
Action’s users are largely male and young. They put a major emphasis on how they present their content digitally. Right now most of their users are hardcore bettors, but they are finding the casual gaming audience is growing.
All anyone really wants are picks. Most people ask their personalities “who do you like.” The context and the analysis are important, but the pick is the main course. People don’t care if you aren’t going to make a pick.
In game betting has a major effect on the punditry effects of what The Action Network does. It makes the pregame bet feel irrelevant.
Kip Levin – President/COO, FanDuel
You have to give an audience the feeling they can get an edge. You can do that with both picks and analysis, but you need to offer diverse information.
With TVG, FanDuel aimed to create a Bloomberg or CNBC style show for sports gambling. The ratings climbed every week of the NFL season.
Fan Duel isn’t advertising around content. They value audiences and geography when looking for radio partners.
4:20PM-4:55PM – The Jungle of Sports Radio
Jim Rome – Host, CBS Sports Radio/CBS Sports Network
Sports radio is a job, but it’s a great job and I’m going to do this as long as I can. When I went to college there was no internet, there was no sports radio format, there was FAN and that’s it. I asked myself, why me over everyone else who wants this job, and I realized the answer is I will never give in.
When I started, I was in market 174. I wanted to get to a major market and I ended up going to San Diego. From there, we started syndicating the show and it wasn’t with a big company, we were knocking on doors trying to get other stations to pick up the show. It was two stations, then four, eight and so on. Every time I entered a new market, I started talking about their local sports because I never went directly from local to national, it was a gradual transition. Now, with 200 markets I can’t do that.
Jim is trying to find transcendent topics, and says he means what he says and says what he means. He’s not looking for just the hot topic, because the audience can tell when something isn’t genuine.
We get a lot of feedback, from listeners and management, even my wife will text me to say “are you sure you want to be saying that?” I want to make sure I’m relevant and making an impact.
You better have thick skin in the industry, not everyone’s going to be happy to see you. I didn’t set out to be polarizing, but I learned early on that the people that like me seem to really like me and the people that don’t like me seem to really hate my guts.
I need people around me with opinions, that can make the show better and sometimes I’ll take those opinions and say you’re right let’s do that, other times I’ll take those opinions and say no, we’re doing it this way. We don’t need to knock heads everyday, but I want people around me with opinions that can stand their ground.
I can not tell you how important it was to get to San Diego. When I was in market 174 I was killing myself trying to get to a large market. I was writing to radio stations daily, so when San Diego gave me that break it meant everything and they will always be special to me. I’m still not in every market I need to be in, and I want to get in those markets. I’m still knocking down those doors because I’m really hungry to get there. I love the grind, I’m proud of what I’ve accomplished, but I want more.
I like the digital platform. I’m able to do certain things on my podcast that I can’t do on my terrestrial show. I can have different guests on my podcasts and do long-form interviews. I want to try different things and the digital space is good for that.
Regarding a potential subscription based platform – If I’m going to offer something that I’m charging for, what am I giving the audience that they can’t already get for free?
I should listen to other shows more than I do, but I’m not that smart, I work really hard on my show. I’m getting in at 6 for a show that starts at 9 and then I’m working at night. I’m really locked in to what I need to do for my own show.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
ESPN Has Made It Clear, Radio Is Not a Priority
“What’s unfolding now at the worldwide leader is disheartening because it could have been avoided.”

Published
4 weeks agoon
April 26, 2023
This is not a column I wanted to write. For years, I’ve expressed how much better the industry is when ESPN Radio is healthy. I’ve maintained friendships at the network, the company has supported our BSM Summit, and I reflect fondly on the few years I spent working there earlier in my career. It was a special place to work and I learned a lot about becoming a pro in Bristol.
But this ESPN Radio is not the one that I and many others were fortunate to be a part of under Bruce Gilbert. It is not the one that Traug Keller, Scott Masteller, and other radio-first believers oversaw. This current version lacks radio instincts, focus, passion, and care. That may be an opinion that folks in Bristol, New York, and Los Angeles offices don’t want to hear but the decisions made in recent years make it difficult to see it any other way.
ESPN Radio used to obsess over serving the sports fan, its radio affiliates, and network advertising partners. But serving the company’s television and digital interests is what matters most now. Relationships with radio operators have changed, interest in operating local markets has decreased, and though I’m sure some will defend the network’s interest in satisfying advertising partners, it’s hard to do that a day after the entire national audio sales team was gutted. Thankfully Good Karma Brands is passionate about the audio business and helping their sales efforts. If they weren’t involved, who would be leading the charge in Bristol?
I didn’t start this week planning to drop a truth bomb but as I sat here on Tuesday and fielded text after text and call after call, I couldn’t help but be disappointed and upset. This network has been a staple of the industry for over thirty years. Yet in less than ten it feels they’re closer to turning off the lights than celebrating success. That should not happen when you have the partnerships, history, and talent that ESPN has.
What saddens me is that it didn’t have to reach this point. ESPN Radio had chances to sell in the past to outside parties. They declined. Folks inside of Disney felt the network was worth more. Well, how’s that looking now? If the company wasn’t going to commit to doing it the right way, and was just going to cut its way to the bottom, why stand in the way of others who’d pay to save it? It’s eerily similar to what just happened with Buzzfeed News. The company thought it was better than it was, and within a few years, the whole thing crumbled.
If this were the first time the network looked bad, I’d go easier on them. I understand the business, and sometimes brands or companies make mistakes or have to make difficult choices. It’s why I didn’t bury the network when Mike and Mike ended. Though I knew replacing their stability in mornings would be tough, I felt the network had earned enough clout over the prior years to be given the benefit of the doubt with a new show/lineup. I also applauded the company for replacing Zubin with Max, defended paying Stephen A. Smith top dollar, and supported GetUp! when it was popular to predict the show’s funeral.
But how can leadership in Bristol expect radio operators to trust their decision making at this point? I’ve talked to network executives privately and publicly about these issues for years, and have been told repeatedly that the radio business matters to them and becoming more consistent was a priority. At some point though the actions need to match the words. Unfortunately the only consistency taking place is change, and it often isn’t for the better.
I’ve lost count of the phone calls, texts, emails and direct messages I’ve fielded from PDs, executives, market managers, and ad agency professionals who’ve asked ‘should I be doing business with this network? Can you help me rebrand and redesign my radio station without ESPN Radio?‘ Yesterday alone I took five calls including from two who have expiring deals coming up. Think they’re in a rush to extend a partnership given what’s going on?
If you turn back the clock, some will say that things began to go in the wrong direction when Bruce Gilbert and Dan Patrick left. Though those were big losses, there was still a lot of confidence across the industry in ESPN Radio after they left. The early signs of issues at the network really started in 2014. That’s when Scott Masteller and Scott Shapiro departed. Masteller went on to program WBAL in Baltimore, and Shapiro teamed up with Don Martin to strengthen FOX Sports Radio.
Fast forward to 2020, and the heart and soul of the network, Traug Keller retired. Traug had more in the tank when he signed off, and when I talked to him prior to his exit, he denied being forced out or having concerns about the future direction of the network. Those who know Traug, know that’s he’s a class act and not one to air dirty laundry. But I also know he’s smart. As I look back now, I can’t help but wonder if he knew the ship was headed for an iceberg. I have no doubt that the network would be in better shape today if he were still there.
After Traug’s exit, a year later, Tim McCarthy was let go in New York. The network even cut ties with longtime voice talents Jim and Dawn Cutler, though they stayed on the company’s top stations in NY and LA.
Though I hated to see all of them go because they were good at their jobs and valuable to the network, the one that made a little more sense was Tim’s exit because that had more to do with Good Karma taking over in New York. Tim has since landed with the Broadcasters Foundation of America, and Vinny DiMarco is now leading 98.7 ESPN NY, and I’m a fan of both men.
But now here we are in 2023, and once again, the folks being shown the door are the people who dedicated their lives to radio. Among the casualties, Scott McCarthy, the network’s SVP of Audio, Pete Gianesini, Senior Director of Digital Audio, Louise Cornetta, Digital Audio Program Director, and two good local sports radio programmers, Ryan Hurley at 98.7 ESPN NY, and Amanda Brown at ESPN LA 710. All of them good, talented people with track records of success in the format. I struggle to explain how ESPN Radio is better today without them.
By the way, I haven’t even touched the talent department yet. But let’s go there next.
In less than eight years, ESPN Radio’s morning show has featured Mike & Mike, Golic & Wingo (Mike Golic Jr. and Jason Fitz were added as contributing voices), Keyshawn, JWill & Zubin, and Keyshawn, JWill and Max. Middays have included Colin Cowherd, Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, Scott Van Pelt, Ryen Russillo, Danny Kanell, Will Cain, Mike Greenberg, Jason Fitz, Stephen A. Smith, Bart & Hahn, and Fitz and Harry Douglas. Afternoons have been a combination of Le Batard and Stugotz, Bomani Jones, Jalen & Jacoby, Golic Jr. & Chiney, Canty & Golic Jr. & Canty and Carlin. I could run down the changes at night too, but you get the picture.
As a former programmer and current consultant, I know that radio is a relationship listen and investment. You can’t build an audience and attract sponsor support for talent and shows if the product constantly changes. Most PDs or executives who make this many changes during a short period of time, usually aren’t around very long. Yet ESPN has allowed this to continue, which leaves me to question how much they value their radio network.
Look, I’m sure this is a tough week for those in management at ESPN. Having to tell folks they’re not being retained and watch friends say goodbye is a crummy part of the job. I’m sure some have even fought to try and avoid this bloodbath. But when the news comes down from up above that 7,000 jobs are being eliminated, it’s not a question of whether or not people are talented and valuable, it’s simply about the bottom line. I feel for the folks at ESPN who have to deliver the bad news this week but also for those who are staying and now have limited support around them to make a difference.
By decimating the radio department there are now bigger questions to be answered by Jimmy, Burke, Dave, Norby and the rest of the management team. How much does ESPN value the radio business and the stations they’re in business with? If most of the people who’ve built relationships with local stations are gone, talented programmers are being ousted, talent changes happen far too frequently, and the company becomes less involved in local markets, why is anyone to believe this space matters to ESPN? What exactly are stations gaining from partnerships besides the use of four letters and the opportunity to air play by play events?
The network expects these stations to provide them with inventory, rights fees, branding, promotion, and clearance of certain programs so isn’t it fair of stations to have expectations of the network too? Don’t radio network partners deserve consistent quality programming, relationships with managers who prioritize audio, and less negative PR?
Most who I talk to about this situation believe the network’s glory days are gone. That’s fine. Just because this isn’t the ESPN Radio of 2005 doesn’t mean it can’t be great. The product exists now to primarily serve mid to small market operators who can’t afford local content, major market stations who don’t want to spend on evening and overnight shows, and company owned stations that can be utilized to promote the company’s digital and television content. ESPN does gain value for their radio shows on TV and podcast platforms, but those benefit the company much more than their radio partners.
The general feeling in industry circles is that FOX Sports Radio now delivers the best national radio product, CBS Sports Radio has better consistency but similar east coast content issues, and others don’t have strong enough brand recognition or content to justify a change. If sports betting continues to gain mainstream acceptance and bring cash into the marketplace, that could help outlets like VSiN, BetQL, and SportsGrid gain greater traction. If Outkick gets more aggressive with offering content to local markets, especially in the south and Midwest, that could be another interesting option.
The bigger question is whether there’s enough audience, revenue, and excitement for national content in today’s sports radio space. If most major markets are focused on local, is there enough out there in rural America to keep networks excited?
I do know that just ten years ago CBS Radio entered the space because they saw value in it. NBC Sports Radio leaped in too. FOX Sports Radio went all-in for Colin Cowherd, and ESPN Radio was healthy. Even SiriusXM continues to expand its national offerings, and three sports betting networks saw value in pursuing national distribution. It’s hard to convince me that there isn’t financial upside for national sports radio brands in today’s media environment. It may not be a big ratings play but from a business standpoint there is value.
What’s unfolding now at the worldwide leader is disheartening because it could have been avoided. Instead, brands have been damaged, relationships changed, jobs lost, and questions raised about future viability.
If the world’s leading sports operator values radio, they’ll prioritize restoring confidence across the industry. A good start would be putting people in place who champion radio’s future, and make decisions that best serve the radio brands carrying their product. If they can’t do that, then maybe it’s time to step aside, and let someone else try. I know a few groups who’d be happy to take a shot at restoring the network’s pride.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
Radio Must Bring Back The Fun
“The promotions you’re creating are not producing massive recall across the format, national media attention or revenues that change the fate of your next quarter.”

Published
1 month agoon
April 20, 2023
Five and a half days in Las Vegas can feel like an eternity. Especially when you’re in town for business not pleasure. But though I’d rather sleep in my own bed, eat at home, and avoid walking from convention hall to convention hall, I’m glad I made the trip because the NAB Show delivered.
Many media members have attended this event over the years, and it’s easy to come up with reasons not to attend. Budgets are tight, you can’t afford to be out of the office, or you think it isn’t beneficial. That’s where I’ll take exception. If you can’t find something of value at a five-day event that exists to serve broadcasters and brands, that’s on you, not the conference.
Over the past few days, I did what many do and took necessary business meetings at Encore, but I also listened to speakers offer valuable insights on artificial intelligence, marketing, programming, technology, dashboard connectivity, the future of AM radio, and more. All of these are subjects that should matter to media professionals. Having Brett Goldstein (Ted Lasso star Roy Kent) on hand to talk about content creation was an added bonus.
As I spent my final hour inside the North Hall on Wednesday, I couldn’t help but think about how large this event is, what goes into creating it, and how many different industries and brands are represented at it. What the NAB does to make this event possible for sixty-five thousand plus is amazing, and I commend all involved because it truly is informative, and it helps bring together business leaders and brands to help move our industry forward.
There were many takeaways from the conference sessions, but one in particular stood out. I thought Mike McVay’s session with J.D. Crowley and Paul Suchman of Audacy was excellent. Crowley’s insights on listener choice, distribution, and personalization were spot on, and I was very impressed with Suchman’s feedback on some of the behavior testing Audacy has done to learn how consumers respond to different types of content and messaging.
Crowley’s final message about people in the audio industry needing to be proud of the business they’re in was easy for me to relate to because I feel similarly. This is a great business to be in. I get tired of hearing folks in and out of the industry tear it down. So much attention gets placed on who exceeded revenue goals, what a brand’s ratings were, and what a company’s stock price is, losing sight of the more important part, our brands, personalities, and content, and the way they’re received by those who consume it.
Additionally, I was honored to speak about the growth of BSM and BNM. Joe D’Angelo of Xperi and Pierre Bouvard of Cumulus Media treated folks to information on advertising and in-car data, and Erica Farber, Tim Bronsil, and Mary DelGrande did a nice job guiding multiple business conversations. I also enjoyed stopping by the Veritone booth and learning about their products and staff. My only regret, I missed Buzz Knight’s session with Nielsen’s new audio team due to a business meeting running long. Thankfully Inside Radio put together a detailed recap of what was discussed.
But what I want to draw attention to most is something Dan Mason said on stage during his acceptance speech when receiving the Lowry Mays Award at the Broadcasters Foundation of America breakfast. It’s something I raised at last month’s BSM Summit.
After sharing how local is a key differentiator in helping radio stand apart from other forms of media, and reminding everyone about the importance of longevity, Mason said that radio has to get back to having fun. He shared a story of a promotion he was part of in the 1970’s that wouldn’t fly today. It was a short people’s convention that included six-ounce drinks, pigs in a blanket, and strawberry shortcake. The event put his radio station on NBC Nightly News, and created a ton of buzz.
Just because that type of event wouldn’t work in 2023, doesn’t mean others can’t. We have got to create special events that produce national attention, local market interest, and fear of missing out spending. This is what radio is supposed to be exceptional at yet it doesn’t happen enough.
At our Summit in LA, I asked three PD’s to share with me the one promotion in sports radio today that they viewed as a killer event. It wasn’t an easy one to answer. In fact, two referenced WIP’s Wing Bowl, which ended in 2018. Had I asked five or six other PD’s, they’d have likely been in the same boat, struggling to name three or four killer events.
I mentioned how the Mandy Awards at 710 ESPN in Los Angeles stood out, but this format should be able to deliver more than one standout promotion. I realize there are stations doing promotional events, and if they’re helping you produce revenue, great. I’m not telling you to abandon that strategy. But I will challenge you if you try to tell me sports radio’s report card on promotions in 2023 is superb. It is not.
One gentleman I listened to during the week who was attending a session shared one reason why this is the case. He was asked about creating ideas and said ‘we use a committee to brainstorm and find that sometimes the best ideas come from different departments, in fact, our last successful event was the idea of our engineer.’
I’m all for collaboration, and if you’re creating events that satisfy your goals, continue doing it. I’m not here to rain on your parade. But let me share an opinion some may view as unpopular. If the best ideas in your organization are coming from departments other than programming, you have a problem.
The program director and talent are supposed to be the people you turn to for leadership, ideas, passion, creativity, and execution. They’re supposed to be able to think of things that others can’t. Do you think Steven Spielberg or Quentin Tarantino would turn over the direction of their next film to others inside their companies? Imagine the focus of Ted Lasso’s next episode being decided by someone other than Jason Sudeikis, Brett Goldstein, and the rest of their writing team. You’d be wasting the talent of your best storytellers.
Radio companies pay premium dollars for elite programmers and hosts because they’re supposed to be able to bring things to life that only exists inside their brains. If your HR or engineering department are creating the station’s best promotions, you don’t have enough creativity coming from your programming team. That could be due to having a PD who lacks ideas and vision or it could be the result of the way your creative process is structured.
One of the things I enjoyed most as a PD was coming up with ideas that created buzz, ratings, and revenue. My job was to think and execute BIG, and whether it was Lucky Break in San Francisco, Stand For Stan at 101 ESPN in St. Louis, the Golden Ticket at 590 The Fan in St. Louis, the 20 in 20 tour or Goodbye Roast at 95.7 The Game or the Gridiron Gala in both cities, we produced buzz, grew ratings, and made money. If we did something and it failed, that was ok. I’d rather swing and miss than be afraid to try. I took that responsibility seriously, and feel that when you’re making calls by committee, you’re not allowing your best people to do what they’re best suited to do.
Case in point, I attended Boomer & Gio Live in Jersey City, NJ a few weeks ago. It was a fun event with a lot of different things going on. WFAN’s PD Spike Eskin worked the event on stage, and if you recall, the station made national news when Jets GM Joe Douglas said that Aaron Rodgers would end up in New York. There were multiple sales activations included throughout the show, and much of the fun content that took place on stage came from the creators. Because the FAN crew were allowed to do what they do best, the station produced a successful event. Had that been an ‘all departments contribute’ approach, it’d have not been the same show.
What Dan Mason said in Las Vegas was accurate. Radio has to get back to having fun but it also has to be unafraid to take risks. I fear that we worry so much about the ‘what ifs’ and the potential noise on social media that we’re killing creativity, and the next big idea.
If I asked you to list five GREAT sports radio promotions today, could you? And I’m not talking about golf tournaments, charitable bowling events, host debates or bar remotes. If I ask this same question in five years and we’re in the same spot, that’s going to say a lot about where we are as an industry. We have to excite ourselves, our listeners, and our advertisers because when we showcase our creativity in a way that no other medium can, we make a statement, which results in increased attention, and financial investment.
Some of that creative spirit is still alive. You see it in Boston with WEEI’s Jimmy Fund Telethon, and if you attended the Michael Kay Show 20-year anniversary special or Barstool’s Upfront, you saw what great planning, and execution looks like. But I also remember The Fanatic’s Celebrity Week, The Millen Man March in Detroit, Ticketfest in Dallas, Wing Bowl in Philadelphia, and 790 The Zone in Atlanta becoming a national sensation by creating multiple home run events.
I don’t believe enough brands today create events that deliver meaningful impact. Yet they’re needed. When done right, brands ascend to a different level. Sports radio has too many sharp, creative minds to not be creating the biggest and most successful promotions in all of media. If you work in programming and your station isn’t producing promotions that generate recall across the format, national media attention or revenues that change the fate of your next quarter, it’s time to step up your game. If you don’t, the interns, street team, and receptionist may soon be deciding the future direction of your brand’s promotional strategy.

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Barrett Blogs
Reflecting on the 2023 BSM Summit
“Barrett Media president Jason Barrett reflects on last week’s BSM Summit in Los Angeles.”

Published
2 months agoon
March 27, 2023
One of the best parts about the world of sports is that every season ends with one team being crowned champion. It doesn’t exactly work that way managing a media company, even though we invest the same amount of time leading up to the BSM Summit, our equivalent of the Super Bowl or WrestleMania.
Having had a few days to recover and reflect after last week’s Summit in Los Angeles, I know that what we did last week was special. I’m a perfectionist and have a hard time patting myself on the back because I know there’s plenty we can do better, but last week, we hit a homerun. The venues at USC were perfect, the signage was spectacular, the tech ran well, the speakers were awesome, the crowd was great, and the sponsorship support was outstanding. It’s the first time I’ve walked away from an event and felt we accomplished what we set out to do. If time allows, check out Garrett Searight’s piece on some of the key takeaways from the show.
In 2018, Mitch Rosen invited me to utilize his space at Audacy Chicago to take a shot at trying to execute an event for PDs. Now here we are five years later with a few hundred people joining us from all across the industry. It’s pretty incredible. We’re only successful because a lot of people have come together to make sure we are. Without the speakers, sponsors, and staff around me stepping up to get things done, I’d just be a guy with an idea incapable of executing it.
In the next week or so we’ll be sharing video clips from the show on the BSM social media pages. I’m also planning to make full sessions available via on-demand for free for those who attended the show in California. If you didn’t come to the event and want to watch it online, it will be available for a small fee. Stay tuned for further details.
What matters most to me with the Summit is that folks in the room get something out of it. I thought many of our speakers delivered a ton of value this year, and there were a few WOW moments along the way as well. Colin and Rome were outstanding as expected, and Jay Glazer and Al Michaels’ speeches had everyone hanging on their next words. I thought the Shawn Michaels and Jack Rose led sessions were outside the box and well received, and I was beyond impressed by Joy Taylor, Mina Kimes, and Amanda Brown. We used 14 hours in that room to explore issues dealing with management, research, technology, programming, talent and social media, so it gave everyone a little bit of everything, which was the goal.
We did have a little bit of friction on stage during the Aircheck on Campus session, which wasn’t a bad thing. Personalities and programmers have passionate conversations inside the office every day. Rob, Mark and Scott just happened to have one on stage. All three are smart, talented, and willing to be candid. I thought that was healthy for the room.
I know networking is important at these type of events and there was plenty of opportunity for folks to do that. I look at it like this, if you can get face time with others, meet your heroes or folks you admire and pick up some ideas and insight in the process to elevate your business, that should justify it being worthy of a few days out of the office.
As crazy as it may sound, I step away from each of these events asking my team ‘is that the last one?’ I know I can create and execute a great conference, and I enjoy doing it, but I also don’t want to invest eight months of time building a show that becomes predictable and stale. It’s why I change speakers and topics frequently. This year’s lineup was phenomenal, and I’m so pleased with who we featured on stage and had in the room, but the competitor in me will also look back and say ‘Bill Simmons, Ice Cube and Lincoln Riley Should’ve Been On Stage Too!‘

If we do host an event in 2024, it will take place in either Boston, Chicago, Dallas or New York. You can cast your vote on BSMSummit.com.
I want to thank everyone who stopped me last week to share how much they enjoy this event. That support means a lot. I think Good Karma Brands broke a record with 20+ employees in attendance, and iHeart was also well represented, which was great to see. I was also excited to have 15-20 college students in the room. The more we can educate the next generation, the better it is for all of us. I also was thrilled to learn a few of our partners and attendees made time to arrange further business conversations. If two groups can help each other, that’s what it’s all about.
But as much as I love my radio brothers and sisters, I’ve noticed more folks showing up the past two years from areas outside of sports radio. That’s both exhilarating and concerning. This year we had folks in the room from WWE, Amazon, The Volume, Omaha Productions, Dirty Mo Media, Barstool Sports, Spotify, Blue Wire, Locked On, BetRivers, Bleav, etc.. I hope that trend continues because sports media is a lot larger of a business than sports radio. As I told the room, we’re not in the radio business, television business, audio or video business, we are in the content business. That covers a lot more ground for brands than focusing on one specific platform.
I’ve been on cloud nine for a few days because overall, this went as well as I could ask for. If there’s one thing I’d like to make better it’s that I hear from a lot of folks throughout the year who say they want to learn, meet new people and give themselves a competitive edge yet when an event exists that can help them do that, they’re not in the room. Some of my radio friends didn’t come because they weren’t asked to speak. Others said they couldn’t make it because their company wouldn’t cover the costs. A few said they thought the Summit was only for programming people not managers or sellers.
First, growing and selling an audience should matter to everyone not just programmers and hosts. GM’s and Sales Managers can gain a lot at this show. So can advertisers and agencies. I’m hoping to change that in the future. Second, I can’t tell you whether or not to prioritize attending but groups outside of radio are passionate about sports audio and video, and they’re finding ways to be in the room. At some point, you have to decide if investing in knowledge, ideas and relationships matters to you and your business. Your employer isn’t going to cover everything you want to do so especially when the economy isn’t strong. Sometimes you have to invest time and resources in yourself.
Many of you reading this website know my track record in the radio industry. I built my career in radio. My passion for the business remains strong. I consult brands all across the country, and root for the industry’s success. It’s why I sink my heart and soul into this event and share all that I do over two days because I want to help people grow their businesses.
But it is strange that over the course of four live events I’ve still not had one current radio CEO sit down for an in-depth sports media business conversation. It’d be one thing if they were pitched and I turned them down but that’s not the case. I’ve had great conversations and support outside of radio from Jimmy Pitaro, Eric Shanks, Erika Ayers, and John Skipper. Jeff Smulyan has been a huge supporter taking part in our awards ceremony, and we’ve had high ranking TV executives in the room watching the show. Maybe things will change in 2024 but whether they do or don’t, I’m going to focus on helping brands and individuals who gain value from this two day event, and continue challenging this industry to think and act differently.

Now that the 2023 BSM Summit is over, my focus shifts to supporting my clients and gearing up for a massive challenge, hosting our first BNM Summit for news media professionals. The conference will take place in Nashville, TV on September 13-14 at Vanderbilt University. I’ll be announcing the first group of speakers in April after the NAB. Tickets will go on sale at that time too.
I know it won’t be easy but I tend to do my best work when I’m out of my comfort zone. This is a space I have passion for and feel I can add something to so there’s only one thing left to do, get to work, and put together the news media equivalent of what we just created for sports media professionals last week in Los Angeles. That may be a tall order but if anyone is ready to meet the challenge head on, yours truly is certainly up to the task.
Thanks again for a spectacular time in Los Angeles. Onward and upward we go!

Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Sports Media. Prior to launching BSM he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.