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Programming In Times of Tragedy

“We have made it a point to never mention the shooter or his name in ANY capacity. We want all of the attention to be on the victims and those impacted by the tragic shooting.”

Matt Fishman



Editor’s note: Some of the images used in this piece may be too intense for some readers, particularly those that have an emotional reaction to gun violence.

It’s the news no one wants to see, let alone in their city–a mass shooting.

Last weekend, the cities of El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio both had a mass shooting. 22 people were killed in the shooting at the El Paso Walmart, while in Dayton nine people were killed by the shooter in the popular Oregon District. 

Image result for dayton shooting

So what does this have to do with sports radio? Absolutely everything if you are running a station in one of those markets. To get the lay of the land, I checked in with Justin Kinner. Justin is the Program Director and Afternoon Show co-host of “Kinner and Schlemmer” at ESPN-WING 1410 in Dayton. Here’s our Q&A. Justin provides some great programming tips to any station dealing with a mass shooting or other major tragedy.

Matt: How did you and your station react to and cover the shooting? 

Justin: It was a difficult thing to react to – We are trying to provide updates and follow the story without knowing all of the details ourselves. The Oregon District is one of the most popular spots in Dayton and it was hard to focus on the task at hand while wondering if anyone we knew was hurt in the shootings. 

We immediately began running top of the hour news updates on the mass shooting all day Sunday – We did this on Sunday only, mainly because we do not have any live local weekend shows with live talent to give continuous updates to our listeners. We do have a breaking news and emergency relief plan in place for situations like this and we were able to act on them right away. 

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– We immediately pulled all online & on-air contesting promos/content 

– We canceled all scheduled social media posts – We kept all content related to the shootings

Matt: As a sports station, what topics did you focus on in the wake of the shooting and what things did you make sure to avoid? 

Justin: The beautiful thing about sports is that it is the ultimate release from our everyday real world problems. That is why our goal was to address the unfortunate attacks from over the weekend in all local shows, but at the same time setting the expectation that we will provide a release for our listeners to tune in to a local show and be entertained with sports talk. Our listeners have done a tremendous job calling in to the show and contributing to the sports topics but always ending the call with words of encouragement for the community. 

We have made it a point to never mention the shooter or his name in ANY capacity. We want all of the attention to be on the victims and those impacted by the tragic shooting. We have also made sure to praise law enforcement and first responders for their heroic efforts that saved hundreds of lives. 

Matt: Did you have to change/update imaging to reflect the change in tone needed after the shooting? 

Image result for dayton shooting

Justin: We did a couple of things to change the tone of our programming for the week – Monday’s shows all started out with a dry opening (No intro) and a 3-5min opening message from our talent. All talent addressed the shooting from over the weekend and they ended the segment by saying that sports talk will take over for the remainder of the show. 

We had all of our local talent voice personalized 10-15 second liners praising the first responders and giving condolences to the victims and their families. These messages were aired throughout the week. 

I am also very appreciative of our ESPN radio affiliation. I requested some personalized liners from their radio talent and they sent them back right away. Personalized liners from Golic & Wingo, Stephen A & others praising our first responders and giving condolences to the victims and their families was a great touch and our listeners definitely noticed it. 

This is what an excellent leader and programmer does. Let me look back at our Q&A and give you some highlights:

  1. Using the ESPN affiliation to get specific liners: Incredible way to integrate the national hosts and keep the same tone throughout the station. 
  2. Dry Openings: Too often shows get too used to doing things the way they do them. These dry opens set the appropriate serious tone given the events in Dayton.
  3. Contesting/Social Media: In a crisis, it might be easy to forget the contesting promos and social media posts. Had they run, they would have been out of place during this very serious time. 
Image result for dayton shooting

Justin was clearly prepared for an emergency, made strong decisions, communicated effectively and worked quickly. He incorporated the ESPN talent and shows and made a strong editorial decision to not mention the shooter by name. If you don’t already have a plan, use Justin’s as a template. Kudos, Justin on a job well done during a very difficult time in Dayton. 

BSM Writers

Being Wrong On-Air Isn’t A Bad Thing

…if you feel yourself getting uncomfortable over the fact that you were wrong, stop to realize that’s your pride talking. Your ego. And if people call you out for being wrong, it’s actually a good sign.




In the press conference after the Warriors won their fourth NBA title in eight years, Steph Curry referenced a very specific gesture from a very specific episode of Get Up that aired in August 2021.

“Clearly remember some experts and talking heads putting up the big zero,” Curry said, then holding up a hollowed fist to one eye, looking through it as if it were a telescope.

“How many championships we would have going forward because of everything we went through.”

Yep, Kendrick Perkins and Domonique Foxworth each predicted the Warriors wouldn’t win a single title over the course of the four-year extension Curry had just signed. The Warriors won the NBA title and guess what? Curry gets to gloat.

The funny part to me was the people who felt Perkins or Foxworth should be mad or embarrassed. Why? Because they were wrong?

That’s part of the game. If you’re a host or analyst who is never wrong in a prediction, it’s more likely that you’re excruciatingly boring than exceedingly smart. Being wrong is not necessarily fun, but it’s not a bad thing in this business.

You shouldn’t try to be wrong, but you shouldn’t be afraid of it, either. And if you are wrong, own it. Hold your L as I’ve heard the kids say. Don’t try to minimize it or explain it or try to point out how many other people are wrong, too. Do what Kendrick Perkins did on Get Up the day after the Warriors won the title.

“When they go on to win it, guess what?” He said, sitting next to Mike Greenberg. “You have to eat that.”

Do not do what Perkins did later that morning on First Take.

Perkins: “I come on here and it’s cool, right? Y’all can pull up Perk receipts and things to that nature. And then you give other people a pass like J-Will.”

Jason Williams: “I don’t get passes on this show.”

Perkins: “You had to, you had a receipt, too, because me and you both picked the Memphis Grizzlies to beat the Golden State Warriors, but I’m OK with that. I’m OK with that. Go ahead Stephen A. I know you’re about to have fun and do your thing. Go ahead.”

Stephen A. Smith: “First of all, I’m going to get serious for a second with the both of you, especially you, Perk, and I want to tell you something right now. Let me throw myself on Front Street, we can sit up there and make fun of me. You know how many damn Finals predictions I got wrong? I don’t give a damn. I mean, I got a whole bunch of them wrong. Ain’t no reason to come on the air and defend yourself. Perk, listen man. You were wrong. And we making fun, and Steph Curry making fun of you. You laugh at that my brother. He got you today. That’s all. He got you today.”

It’s absolutely great advice, and if you feel yourself getting uncomfortable over the fact that you were wrong, stop to realize that’s your pride talking. Your ego. And if people call you out for being wrong, it’s actually a good sign. It means they’re not just listening, but holding on to what you say. You matter. Don’t ruin that by getting defensive and testy.


I did a double-take when I saw Chris Russo’s list of the greatest QB-TE combinations ever on Wednesday and this was before I ever got to Tom Brady-to-Rob Gronkowski listed at No. 5. It was actually No. 4 that stopped me cold: Starr-Kramer.

My first thought: Jerry Kramer didn’t play tight end.

My second thought: I must be unaware of this really good tight end from the Lombardi-era Packers.

After further review, I don’t think that’s necessarily true, either. Ron Kramer did play for the Lombardi-era Packers, and he was a good player. He caught 14 scoring passes in a three-year stretch where he really mattered, but he failed to catch a single touchdown pass in six of the 10 NFL seasons he played. He was named first-team All-Pro once and finished his career with 229 receptions.

Now this is not the only reason that this is an absolutely terrible list. It is the most egregious, however. Bart Starr and Kramer are not among the 25 top QB-TE combinations in NFL history let alone the top five. And if you’re to believe Russo’s list, eighty percent of the top tandems played in the NFL in the 30-year window from 1958 to 1987 with only one tandem from the past 30 years meriting inclusion when this is the era in which tight end production has steadily climbed.

Then I found out that Russo is making $10,000 per appearance on “First Take.”

My first thought: You don’t have to pay that much to get a 60-something white guy to grossly exaggerate how great stuff used to be.

My second thought: That might be the best $10,000 ESPN has ever spent.

Once a week, Russo comes on and draws a reaction out of a younger demographic by playing a good-natured version of Dana Carvey’s Grumpy Old Man. Russo groans to JJ Redick about the lack of fundamental basketball skills in today’s game or he proclaims the majesty of a tight end-quarterback pairing that was among the top five in its decade, but doesn’t sniff the top five of all-time.

And guess what? It works. Redick rolls his eyes, asks Russo which game he’s watching, and on Wednesday he got me to spend a good 25 minutes looking up statistics for some Packers tight end I’d never heard of. Not satisfied with that, I then moved on to determine Russo’s biggest omission from the list, which I’ve concluded is Philip Rivers and Antonio Gates, who connected for 89 touchdowns over 15 seasons, which is only 73 more touchdowns than Kramer scored in his career. John Elway and Shannon Sharpe should be on there, too.

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BSM Writers

Money Isn’t The Key Reason Why Sellers Sell Sports Radio

I started selling sports radio because I enjoyed working with clients who loved sports, our station, and wanted to reach fans with our commercials and promotions.

Jeff Caves



Radio Sales

A radio salesperson’s value being purely tied to money is overrated to me. Our managers all believe that our main motivation for selling radio is to make more money. They see no problem in asking us to sell more in various ways because it increases our paycheck. We are offered more money to sell digital, NTR, to sell another station in the cluster, weekend remotes, new direct business, or via the phone in 8 hours. 

But is that why you sell sports radio?

In 2022, the Top 10 highest paying sales jobs are all in technology. Not a media company among them. You could argue that if it were all about making money, we should quit and work in tech. Famous bank robber Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed twenty banks over twenty years. He reportedly said,” that’s where the money is”. Sutton is the classic example of a person who wanted what money could provide and was willing to do whatever it took to get it, BUT he also admitted he liked robbing banks and felt alive. So, Sutton didn’t do it just for the money.

A salesperson’s relationship with money and prestige is also at the center of the play Death of a Salesman. Willy Loman is an aging and failing salesman who decides he is worth more dead than alive and kills himself in an auto accident giving his family the death benefit from his life insurance policy. Loman wasn’t working for the money. He wanted the prestige of what money could buy for himself and his family. 

Recently, I met a woman who spent twelve years selling radio from 1999-2011. I asked her why she left her senior sales job. She said she didn’t like the changes in the industry. Consolidation was at its peak, and most salespeople were asked to do more with less help. She described her radio sales job as one with “golden handcuffs”. The station paid her too much money to quit even though she hated the job. She finally quit. The job wasn’t worth the money to her.

I started selling sports radio because I enjoyed working with clients who loved sports, our station, and wanted to reach fans with our commercials and promotions. I never wanted to sell anything else and specifically enjoyed selling programming centered around reaching fans of Boise State University football. That’s it. Very similar to what Mark Glynn and his KJR staff experience when selling Kraken hockey and Huskies football.  

I never thought selling sports radio was the best way to make money. I just enjoyed the way I could make money. I focused on the process and what I enjoyed about the position—the freedom to come and go and set my schedule for the most part. I concentrated on annual contracts and clients who wanted to run radio commercials over the air to get more traffic and build their brand.

Most of my clients were local direct and listened to the station. Some other sales initiatives had steep learning curves, were one-day events or contracted out shaky support staff. In other words, the money didn’t motivate me enough. How I spent my time was more important. 

So, if you are in management, maybe consider why your sales staff is working at the station. Because to me, they’d be robbing banks if it were all about making lots of money.  

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BSM Writers

Media Noise: BSM Podcast Network Round Table



Demetri Ravanos welcomes the two newest members of the BSM Podcast Network to the show. Brady Farkas and Stephen Strom join for a roundtable discussion that includes the new media, Sage Steele and Roger Goodell telling Congress that Dave Portnoy isn’t banned from NFL events.

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