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Sports Radio Program Director’s React To ESPN Radio Changes

“Dan is incredibly committed to his way of doing things and he and the network were clearly heading in opposite directions.”

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ESPN Radio

News broke last week that Dan Le Batard would soon be leaving ESPN and the ESPN Radio weekday lineup. As a result, changes were required to ESPN Radio’s programming schedule, the second major change in less than six months. Mike Greenberg will now slide into Le Batard’s old timeslot, and the team of Alan Hahn and Bart Scott will occupy Greenberg’s previous show time of Noon to 2pm ET.

To nobody’s surprise, the changes produced a ton of reaction. I spent much of my weekend swapping emails and texts with more than ten sports radio program directors who partner with ESPN Radio across the country to take their pulse on The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz going away, Greeny changing time slots, and 98.7 ESPN NY’s Bart & Hahn, moving into the national lineup in middays. The majority of the feedback I received was a combination of frustration, disappointment, and confusion of how much the worldwide leader values it’s radio affiliate partners.

To assure that we received honest and candid feedback, I offered each program director anonymity. Some readers and industry professionals may have an issue with that, but I’d rather have decision makers offer true sentiments instead of platitudes.

One sports radio insider I spoke with told me that he wasn’t at all surprised by Le Batard and ESPN cutting ties. In fact, he says everyone he spoke to close to the situation said they expected the announcement to come much sooner than it did.

“I was actually surprised that his show was a part of the new lineup when it was announced this summer. By keeping him while also taking away an hour of his show, you knew the end was near and there would be another lineup fairly soon.”

One PD out West told me that he is surprised ESPN didn’t find a way to try and keep Le Batard in the family somehow.

“I think Dan is a great talent that resonates with a younger demographic. Those people are not easy to find, and I am curious which direction ESPN is going in moving forward with their daily television product.”

One PD in the Midwest said he suspects Le Batard has been thinking about his future with ESPN for well over a year now, since he caught heat for criticizing the network’s unwillingness to let talent address social issues.

“I think Dan is incredibly committed to his way of doing things and he and the network were clearly heading in opposite directions. But there is a deeper issue here and it’s really about sports radio trying to come to terms with today’s political climate,” the PD said.

“Dan is not shy with his opinions and is not afraid to share them, a staple of any successful radio program in the past. This is great if you’re a conservative oriented talk station with a clear identity. People are coming to that station specifically to hear that viewpoint. But if you’re a station whose identity is tied up in talking about the local baseball, football or basketball team in interesting and entertaining ways – why should a listener come back tomorrow if they think they’re just going to get a “sports guy” trying to do his Sean Hannity or Jake Tapper bit? This terrifies a sports network who just doesn’t have listeners or margins to lose right now. They are afraid of dividing and losing the somewhat niche audience they are able to attract.”

Another Midwestern PD told me it is that willingness to make people, particularly the bosses, uncomfortable that allowed The Dan Le Batard Show to stand out.

“The other shows seem pretty formulaic, but Le Batard and his crew were original; and not wholly dependent on the ‘news of the day’ in creating memorable and compelling segments. They looked at sports, pop culture, and current events thru a different lens, and I appreciated the originality.”

A PD in the South agreed with the idea that the ESPN Radio lineup is a lot less special without Dan Le Batard in the mix.

“His exit just furthers the homogenization of ESPN’s lineup. For the most part, it’s dull by design. As far as Dan’s replacement? Come on, let’s just say I have very low expectations for it’s longevity on my station. ESPN is still a brand that carries cache locally, but the apple isn’t as shiny as it was. Fortunately for the network, those four letters still open doors.”

That brings up another interesting question. What is the value of the ESPN brand to local affiliates now? Without Le Batard, everything during prime hours originates out of the Northeast and all of the shows in mid days, when stations may elect to air syndicated programming, have a very distinct New York flavor.

One PD I spoke with in the Northeast says the shows don’t add much value to his station, even though he’s not far from the big apple. The lineup may mean less, but the four letters still carry weight.

“I still think the ESPN brand means something. Maybe not what it once meant, but it’s still synonymous with sports and being the top sports brand out there. I still think the power of saying ESPN to clients is more powerful than any other name available.”

“I have no reason for optimism,” a West Coast programmer said when I asked how he felt about airing Bart & Hahn. “It reinforces every negative stereotype about the East Coast centricity of ESPN Radio. You can never be all things to all people (which is the inherent challenge of a network model), but the combination of a longtime New York writer and a player best known for his days with the Jets is an extraordinarily narrow area of interest and expertise. So, I’m sure it will continue to be a good show for 98.7 in NYC.”

I asked several programmers to offer their perspective on the network changing big parts of their weekday lineup twice in the span of a little more than just four months. One PD in the Midwest said that it certainly isn’t ideal, but affiliates likely won’t view it as detrimental as they would if it was local talent being shuffled multiple times within half of a calendar year.

“It begs the bigger question—where does ESPN Radio or any national network or show fit with local radio stations? If I want to listen to any ESPN Radio show, I can listen to it on my phone, watch it on ESPN+, listen to it on SiriusXM, TuneIn, or on my smart speaker. Why do we need any of these shows on a local radio station?”

“ESPN has bent over backwards to help localize the relationship as much as possible – namely offering their talent as guests regularly on our local shows, but in reality, LOCAL content is what drives attention and revenue,” another programmer added in agreement. “I don’t know that ESPN Radio’s programming is going to have mass appeal to local markets outside of New York, LA and possibly a handful of other big cities.”

It reminds me of a conversation I once had with a PD down south that said he didn’t see the need to pay the exorbitant rights fees the local college football team was asking for to be an affiliate of their radio network because there are dozens of ways to consume any one game now. Nothing that has multiple broadcast homes can be that special.

Another PD told me that given the value in the ESPN brand name, the network shouldn’t rule out continuing to shuffle the deck until they hit on multiple shows that are truly special.

“The ESPN brand still universally means sports – and the play-by-play rights that the network offers are very valuable. But they should continue exploring and looking for transcendent talent to be a part of their regular lineup. Another run at a Pat McAfee? Try to get Katie Nolan more involved in daily radio? Peyton Manning? Hell, put Brett Favre on a show…something that moves the needle. Use weekends to grow up-and-coming personalities, but think about dynamic ensembles for daily radio that creates more ‘juice’ and interest.”

I asked two major market programmers their thoughts on the lineup and where ESPN stands in the national network landscape. Both acknowledged they were unhappy with where things stood, but they each gave a very different answer in terms of where the network ranks against its competitors.

“If we could get out of our contract today, we would. I think that says a lot about how things have changed,” one told me. When I asked if he felt the network valued his station and any of the feedback they’d provided on how the changes were affecting business, he added “Unfortunately, many of the line-up changes are inferior to previous shows on the network once offered. We have voiced our opinion, especially on the morning show but don’t feel we are being heard. Our complaints are usually met with research on where they say the show “is working.”

Another programmer also felt the network’s lineup had lost its luster but tried to relay the positives. “I think ESPN’s roster – albeit not as good as it was a few years ago with Mike & Mike – is still the best option. Fox Sports Radio has closed the gap but ESPN’s play-by-play pushes their package over the top. If you want your brand to be relevant in the future though, worrying about Bart & Hahn’s ratings should be secondary to building out LOCAL content.”

In trying to diagnose the new ESPN Radio approach, one PD pointed to an issue that drives local programmers crazy and is seen as “a huge problem”. There’s a collective belief that ESPN is insistent on turning their TV stars into radio hosts, a strategic decision which differs from how the network attained its initial success. ESPN Radio became part of the fabric of radio stations across the country because their talent valued the medium and understood how to create great radio content.

“ESPN Radio needs its hosts to be FULLY invested in the radio show,” he said. “TV is full of beautiful people, amazing graphics packages and strong info, but in radio you need to make an authentic connection over time with individual listeners. To be able to do that with large swaths of individual listeners is what will ultimately make a successful radio show. If a host can’t make that connection to its audience it just won’t work and it’s a very difficult thing to do. Also, as a programmer, if it’s obvious to me that the radio show is just another thing they do at the network, why should I invest fully in them on the other side?”

There are going to be mixed responses anytime major changes are made at a national outlet like ESPN Radio. Stations in August adjusted their lineups to feature Le Batard and/or Greenberg in specific timeslots, and now less than five months later they have to explore changing yet again. That’s difficult for not only maintaining audience, but it creates problems for sales departments too who are trying to convince clients to buy commercials inside of a certain show, only to have them not be there less than a half a year later.

The big question that ESPN has to answer moving forward is how important is radio to their business? The network lost well respected executive Traug Keller earlier this year, a huge advocate internally for ESPN Radio and someone who worked hard to keep relationships strong with local stations. Less than a full year into a new regime, and the network already has two talent overhauls on its hands, including a poorly managed situation involving former morning man Mike Golic.

Station programmers are hoping ESPN Radio executives continue to work on improving the network’s talent and lineup. It shouldn’t be lost on anyone in Bristol that the majority of respondents to this story felt the lineup has gotten worse. They cited play by play and the brand name as the key reasons why they continue partnering with the network. But if the shows themselves aren’t exciting station programmers or local audiences, and play by play airs mostly at night thus generating less local revenue, eventually those four letters will matter less to operators who are paying rights fees and giving up large chunks of inventory.

ESPN Radio has been an important part of the national/local sports radio landscape for decades. Stations have valued their relationship and enjoyed a lot of ratings and revenue success with the network. But if those two areas struggle more as a result of frequent lineup shuffling, local partners could be forced to explore new relationships, and give up on four important letters that have been a large part of their identity.

BSM Writers

Adam The Bull Is Giving Cleveland Something It’s Never Had Before

“It was only more recently that I was like why do I have to only be a radio guy?”

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After spending 22 years on the radio, Adam “The Bull” Gerstenhaber was ready for a new adventure.  In fact, the former co-host of Bull and Fox on 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland did not have a new job lined up when he signed off from his 11-year radio home last month.

“I was already leaving without having a new project,” admitted Gerstenhaber during a recent phone interview with BSM.  “I left before I knew for sure I had a ‘next project’.”

Gerstenhaber was preparing for his final show with co-host Dustin Fox on April 1st when he was contacted by an executive producer for TEGNA, a company that was developing a Cleveland sports television show on YouTube.  The executive producer, who had just found out that Bull was a free agent, made it clear that he wanted Bull to be a part of the new project.

It all came together very quickly. 

“Let’s talk on Monday,” Gerstenhaber told the executive producer. “And within a week they signed me up.”

The Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show on YouTube featuring Gerstenhaber, former ESPN personality Jay Crawford, 92.3 The Fan’s Garrett Bush, and rotating hosts to make up a four-person round-table show, made its debut last Monday.  The show, which airs weekdays from 11am to 1pm, features passionate Cleveland sports talk, live guests, either in-studio or via Zoom, as well as interaction from the audience through social media.

“I’m very excited,” said Gerstenhaber.  “It’s a definite adjustment for me after 22 years on radio doing television.  For the last 11 years, I’ve been doing a radio show with just one other host and I was the lead guy doing most of the talking and now I’m on a show with three other people and it’s such an adjustment.  So far, I’m having a ball.”  

And so far, the reaction to the show has been very positive.

A big reason why is that it’s something that Cleveland didn’t have and really never had, unlike a city like New York, where there are local radio shows that are simulcast on regional sports channels. 

“There’s nothing like that in Cleveland,” said Gerstenhaber.  “And there was certainly nothing like this with a panel.  Cleveland is such a massive sports town and now people that don’t live in Cleveland that are maybe retired in Florida or Arizona, now they actually have a TV show that they can watch that’s Cleveland-centric.”

The new venture certainly represents a big change in what Bull has been used to in his radio career.  He’s enjoying the freedom of not having to follow a hard clock for this show. In fact, there have already been some occasions where the show has been able to go a little longer than scheduled because they have the flexibility to do that on YouTube.

Doing a show on YouTube gives the panel a great opportunity to go deep into topics and spend some quality time with guests.  And while there is no cursing on the show at the moment, there could be the potential for that down the road.

Don’t expect the show is going to become X-rated or anything like that, but the objective is to be able to capture the spirit and emotion of being a sports fan and host.

“It’s something we may do in the future,” said Gerstenhaber.  “Not curse just to curse but it gives us the option if we get fired up.  It is allowed because there’s no restrictions there.  The company doesn’t want us to do it at the moment.”  

There’s also been the shift for Gerstenhaber from being the “point guard” on his old radio show, driving the conversation and doing most of the talking, to now taking a step back and having Crawford distributing the ball on the television show.

For a guy called “The Bull”, that will take some getting used to. 

“Jay is a pro’s pro,” said Gerstenhaber.  “He’s the point guard for this but he’s also part of the conversation.  I’m not used to not being the point guard so I have to adjust to that.  I think it’s gone pretty well and the chemistry is pretty good and with time we’ll get used to the flow of it.”  

Gerstenhaber’s move from sports radio to an internet television show is a perfect example of how the industry is changing.  A good portion of the listening and viewing audience these days, especially those in the younger demographic, are not necessarily watching traditional television or listening to terrestrial radio.  For a lot of sports fans, watching and listening on a mobile device or a computer has become a very important way of life.

The desire to adapt, along with a shorter workday, was very enticing to him.

“It was only more recently that I was like why do I have to only be a radio guy?” wondered Gerstenhaber.  “There were things about my job that I was unhappy about.  I was doing a five-hour radio show.  It’s too long. That’s crazy.  Nobody should be doing a five-hour radio show at this point.” 

Broadcasting on the internet has arrived and it’s not just a couple of sports fans doing a show from their garage anymore.  The business has evolved to the point where the technology has provided more opportunities for those who have already enjoyed success in the industry and are looking for new challenges.

Kind of like Adam The Bull!

“I think years ago, probably like many people in the radio business, we looked at internet and podcasts as like whatever…those guys aren’t professionals…they’re amateurs,” said Gerstenhaber.  “But the game has changed.”

Gerstenhaber, Crawford and everyone associated with the “Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show” should not have much of a problem attracting the younger audience. That demographic is already accustomed to watching shows on YouTube and other streaming platforms.  The challenge now is to get the more mature audience on board. There are certainly some obstacles there.

I know this from experience with trying to explain to my mother in Florida how she can hear me on the radio and watch me on television simply by using her tablet.

Bull can certainly relate to that.

“My mother is still trying to figure out how to watch the show live,” said Gerstenhaber with a chuckle.  “The older fans struggle with that. A lot of my older fans here in Cleveland are like how do I watch it? For people that are under 40 and certainly people that under 30, watching a YouTube show is like okay I watch everything on my phone or device.  It’s such a divide and obviously as the years go by, that group will increase.” 

With the television show off and running, Gerstenhaber still has a passion for his roots and that’s the radio side of the business.  In the next couple of weeks, “The Bull” is set to announce the launch of two podcasts, one daily and one weekly, that will begin next month.  But he also hasn’t ruled out the possibility of returning to terrestrial radio at some point.

“I have not closed the door to radio,” said Gerstenhaber.  “I still love radio.  I would still, in the right set of circumstances, consider going back to radio but it would have to really be the perfect situation.  I’m excited about (the television show) and right now I don’t want to do anything else but I’m certainly going to remain open-minded to radio if a really excellent opportunity came up.”

The landscape of the broadcasting industry, particularly when it comes to sports, has certainly changed over the years and continues to evolve.  Adam Gerstenhaber certainly enjoyed a tremendous amount of success on the radio side, both in New York and in Cleveland, but now he has made the transition to something new with the YouTube television show and he’s committed to making it a success.

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BSM Writers

Why You Should Be Making Great TikTok Content

“We’re specially trained in the world of TSL (time spent listening), and the longer people view your content on TikTok, the more the app rewards you by shoving your content into more and more feeds.”

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It feels like there’s a new social media platform to pay attention to every other week. That makes it easy to overlook when one of them actually presents value to your brand. It wasn’t long ago that TikTok was primarily used by teenagers with the focus being silly dance trends filmed for video consumption with their friends and followers alike. Now, as the general public has become in tune with how this complicated app works, it’s grown far beyond that.

TikTok is now an app used by all types of demographics and unlike TikTok’s closely related cousins Instagram and Facebook, this app provides a certain type of nuance that I think people in our line of work can really excel in. 

Before I get into the nuts and bolts of how you can use TikTok to your advantage and how to make your videos catch on, I think it’s important to first mention why this matters for you. Now, if I’m being realistic, I’m sure there are some that have already stopped reading this or those that could scroll away fast enough when they saw the words TikTok. You might be thinking that this doesn’t fit your demo, or maybe that it’s a waste of time because productivity here won’t directly lead to an uptick in Nielsen ratings. But I’m not sure any social network directly leads to what we ultimately get judged on, and we aren’t always pumping out content directly to our core audience.

TikTok, like any other app you may use, is marketing. This is another free tool to let people out there know who you are and what you offer in this endless sea of content. And the beauty of TikTok is that it directly caters its algorithm to content creators just like us. Bottom line, if you are a personality in sports talk, there’s no reason you can’t be crushing it on TikTok right now. All it takes is a little direction, focus, consistency, and a plan. 

Unlike Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter where you can throw a photo up with a caption and be done for the day, TikTok’s whole model is built on creative videos that keep users engaged for longer periods of time. This approach works. According to Oberlo, a social media stat tracking site, people spend more time per day on TikTok than any other popular social media application. 38 minutes per day!

This is where this is good news for us in talk radio. We’re specially trained in the world of TSL (time spent listening), and the longer people view your content on TikTok, the more the app rewards you by shoving your content into more and more feeds. TikTok’s algorithm doesn’t care how many followers you have, your level of credibility, or the production on your video. All ir cares about is 1) Is your content good. and 2) Are people watching it. 3) How long are they watching it. The more people watch and the longer they watch creates a snowball effect. Your videos views will skyrocket, sometimes within hours. 

So, how do you create content that will catch on? It’s really not all that different than what you do every day. Create thought-provoking commentary that makes people think, argue, or stay till the end to get the info you teased up for them. I’ve found through my own trial and error that it’s best if you stay away from time-sensitive material, I’ve had more success the more evergreen my content is. That way, the shelf life expands beyond just that day or week. This is different for everyone and there’s no one-size-fits-all, but this is where I’ve seen the most success. 

Also, put yourself out there, don’t be afraid to say something that people are going to vehemently disagree with. Again, it’s not unlike what we do every day. It’s one thing to get someone to listen, it’s another to get them to engage. Once they hit you in the comment section, you’ve got them hooked. Comments breed more views and on and on. But don’t just let those sit there, even the smallest interaction back like a shoulder shrug emoji can go a long way in creating more play for your video. 

If you want to grow quickly, create a niche for yourself. The best content creators that I follow on TikTok all put out very similar content for most of their videos. This means, unlike Instagram where it’s great to show what a wildly interesting and eclectic person you are, TikTok users want to know what they’re getting the second your face pops up on that screen. So if you are the sports history guy, be the sports history guy all the time. If you are the top 5 list guy, be the top 5 list guy all the time, and on and on, you get the point. 

Other simple tricks

  • Splice small videos together. Don’t shoot one long video. 
  • 90 seconds to 2 minutes is a sweet spot amount of time. 
  • Add a soft layer of background instrumental music (this feature is found in the app when you are putting the finishing touches on your video) 
  • Label your video across the screen at the start and time it out so that it disappears seconds later. This way a user gets an idea of what the content is immediately and then can focus on you delivering your message thereafter.  
  • Research trending hashtags, they are far more important than whatever you caption your video. 
  • Use closed captions so that people can follow your video without sound. 

Finally, don’t be intimidated by it or snub your nose at it. Anything that helps your brand is worth doing and anything worth doing is worth doing well. 

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BSM Writers

Does Tom Brady’s Salary Make Sense For FOX In a Changing Media World?

“The risk here doesn’t have to do with Brady specifically, but rather the business of televising football games in general.”

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FOX is playing it too safe when it comes to adding Tom Brady.

That’s going to sound weird given the size of Brady’s broadcasting contract. Even if that deal isn’t worth as much as initially reported, it’s a hell of a lot of loot, especially considering Brady has remained steadfastly uninteresting for a solid 20 years now.

Let’s not pretend that is a detriment in the eyes of a television network, however. There’s a long line of famous athletes companies like FOX have happily paid millions without ever requiring them to be much more than consistently inoffensive and occasionally insightful. Yes, Brady is getting more money than those previous guys, but he’s also the most successful quarterback in NFL history.

The risk here doesn’t have to do with Brady specifically, but rather the business of televising football games in general. More specifically, the fact that the business of televising football games is changing, and while it may not be changing quite as rapidly as the rest of the sports-media industry, but it is changing. There’s an increasing number of choices available to viewers not only in the games that can be watched, but how they are consumed. Everything in the industry points to an increasingly fragmented audience and yet by signing Brady to be in the broadcast booth once he retires, FOX is paying a premium for a single component in a tried-and-true broadcasting formula will be more successful. 

Think of Brady’s hiring as a bet FOX made. A 10-year commitment in which it is doubling down on the status quo at a time of obvious change. FOX saw ESPN introduce the ManningCast last year, and instead of seeing the potential for a network to build different types of products, FOX decided, “Nah, we don’t want to do anything different or new.” Don’t let the price tag fool you. FOX went out and bought a really famous former player to put in a traditional broadcast booth to hope that the center holds..

Maybe it will. Maybe Brady is that interesting or he’s that famous and his presence is powerful enough to defy the trends within the industry. I’m not naive enough to think that value depends on the quality of someone’s content. The memoir of a former U.S. president will fetch a multi-million-dollar advance not because of the literary quality, but because of the size of the potential audience. It’s the same rationale behind FOX’s addition of Brady.

But don’t mistake an expensive addition from an innovative one. The ManningCast was an actual innovation. A totally different way of televising a football game, and while not everyone liked it, some people absolutely loved it. It’s not going to replace the regular Monday Night Football format, but it wasn’t supposed to. It’s an alternative or more likely a complement and ESPN was sufficiently encouraged to extend the ManningCast through 2024. It’s a different product. Another option it is offering its customers. You can choose to watch to the traditional broadcast format with Joe Buck and Troy Aikman in the booth or you can watch the Mannings or you can toggle between both. What’s FOX’s option for those audience members who prefer something like the ManningCast to the traditional broadcast?

It’s not just ESPN, either. Amazon offered viewers a choice of broadcasters, too, from a female announcing tandem of Hannah Storm and Andrea Kramer beginning in 2018 to the Scouts Feed with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks in 2020.

So now, not only do viewers have an increasingly wide array of choices on which NFL games they can watch — thanks to Sunday Ticket — they in some instances have a choice of the announcing crew for that given game. Amid this economic environment, FOX not only decided that it was best to invest in a single product, but it decided to make that investment in a guy who had never done this particular job before nor shown much in the way of an aptitude for it.

Again, maybe Brady is the guy to pull it off. He’s certainly famous enough. His seven Super Bowl victories are unmatched and span two franchises, and while he’s denied most attempts to be anything approaching interesting in public over the past 20 years, perhaps that is changing. His increasingly amusing Twitter posts over the past 2 years could be a hint of the humor he’s going to bring to the broadcast booth. That Tampa Tom is his true personality, which remained under a gag order from the Sith Lord Bill Belichick, and now Brady will suddenly become football’s equivalent of Charles Barkley.

But that’s a hell of a needle to thread for anyone, even someone as famous as Brady, and it’s a really high bar for someone with no broadcasting experience. The upside for FOX is that its traditional approach holds. The downside, however, is that it is not only spending more money on a product with a declining market, but it is ignoring obvious trends within the industry as it does so.

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