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John Kincade Only Wants To Do His Show His Way

” I don’t believe there is enough reinvention of the wheel. I hear a lot of the same. I think that younger listeners want different, want to try something different, try different approaches.”

Brian Noe

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Philly is in John Kincade’s blood. The sports radio host grew up in Broomall, Pennsylvania, which is around 12 miles from Philadelphia City Hall. As he puts it, the only team John ever allowed himself to just be a stupid fan for is the Eagles. He once told his daughter, “You can root for whoever you wish in sports, but you will be an Eagles fan.” Gotta love that. It was an unforeseen path back to Philly for John after a quarter-century in Atlanta, but home never felt so good.

John Kincade (@JohnKincade) | Twitter

It’s always interesting to hear about the events that lead a big-time host to their current gig. John’s path, which includes cancer and coaching hockey, stands out especially. John talks about his deep respect for Angelo Cataldi, the radio term that he despises the most, and how Philly has drastically changed since the mid-‘90s. We also touch on his first 100 days back in Philly and John’s greatest feeling in radio. Oh, and hair. We can’t forget about that. Enjoy.

Brian Noe: What’s your sports radio path that has led to where you are now? 

John Kincade: While I was in college and after college I worked for the Philadelphia Flyers doing video and statistics with their coaching staff under Mike Keenan. I also was coaching ice hockey at the time and thought maybe I wanted to be a hockey coach. That’s craziness. But I was working in the business world. When I stopped working for the Flyers, I continued my coaching career but was working in sales and marketing.

Then when sports radio took off, I got involved with Tony Bruno. He was kind enough to have me as his Flyers correspondent when he was at WCAU. That took me to an internship with WIP. My first air shift was awarded to me by Tom Bigby, God rest his soul. The man was just an absolute legend. I was going down to Atlanta with my business, but I wanted to work in sports radio on the weekends. Tom Bigby was kind enough, Tony Bruno, Angelo Cataldi — I did bits on Angelo Cataldi’s show for over three years before I moved to Atlanta. They all spoke on my behalf with Mike Thompson who was at The Fan in Atlanta. They said put this guy on weekends. Mike Thompson put me on weekends because I had a full-time job during the week. I had my foot in both pools.

Eventually I ended up getting cancer twice. I got cancer in ‘95 and then I got cancer again in ‘97. I said in ‘97 when I got sick again, I told my mom, I said if I survive this, I’m going to go work in radio because I was convinced I was going to die. I was like enough of this part-time crap. I’m going to die. I’m not going to see 40. I’m not going to see 45, 50. So why not do what I want to do? I left and I did radio and TV with the Atlanta Thrashers their first year in ‘99. I worked with Steak Shapiro and their crew at 790 The Zone. Then when they relaunched The Fan in 2000, we started Buck and Kincade and I did that for 20 years.

BN: How would you judge your first 100 days in Philly now that you’re back?

JK: I’m extremely happy the way the show has premiered and the way the show has been received. You’re launching something new and we are doing something that is completely foreign to the market as far as the kind of show we do. Thankfully it appears the younger sports radio listeners are flocking to it and loving it. That’s what I love to hear. I’ve been in the business long enough to know what works.

It’s an intimidating thing to come home because you want to do your best. The difference is, instead of an audience listening to me every day, I’ve got at least 150 people that actually know my cell phone number that are listening to the show every day. I have a huge extended family. Within a 10-mile radius I probably have 15 to 20 cousins. I’m constantly getting that immediate feedback. Sort of like you guys at Barrett Sports Media, you have your little focus groups, well guess what, I’ve got a focus group every day on my cell phone.

I came in the door and I told Beasley Media we’re going to create this show and I said we’re going to break some eggs. We’re going to do things differently and we’re going to resist the urge to do exactly what has been done in Philly sports radio forever. And hopefully the audience will be attracted to it, stick with us, spend more time with us. We are very, very pleased with how we’ve premiered.

BN: What’s the biggest difference with your show compared to other shows in Philly?

JK: We probably take around 15 percent of the calls that any other show in the market takes. I’m going to say 15 percent, maybe 20. There are great, successful hosts in this market, some people who are really legends of the game. Guys I compete with like Angelo Cataldi, Mike Missanelli doing afternoon drive on our station, Anthony Gargano who I follow. These are guys who have been here forever and they do their thing. They do what has worked for them and what this community has fallen in love with them for.

I felt I had an opportunity to come in and do something that I had done on the national level for years where I did not take many calls. I did seven years at ESPN Radio with The John Kincade Show and then eight years on CBS Sports Radio. For 15 years I did it and I said okay, I know this works. I didn’t have to be caller driven. I hate the term caller-driven radio. It is the number one pet peeve to me.

When I talk to young people about getting into the business I say look, the world is going toward podcasting. What do we all want to do? We all want to binge watch. We all want to watch a show on our schedule. My wife wants to watch three episodes of one show in one night. I do not. That’s not how I consume media. My wife loves that. I said, well radio is moving in that direction. And guess what you’re not going to have?

What you need to do is you need to entertain. You need to catch people’s attention and entertain. I think relying on caller-driven radio to me is an idea of saying, well I’ve got a show, and I’m asking people to come and listen to my show, but I have no idea what the content is going to be. It’s going to be provided by random people who pick up the phone and call. To me, and just for me, it’s sort of what sports radio was 20 years ago. I don’t believe it’s what young listeners want and I think the numbers are bearing that out.

BN: What’s it like for you to compete against your mentor, Angelo Cataldi?

JK: The respect, admiration, and flat-out love that I have for Angelo Cataldi will never change, has never changed. He was involved every step of the way when I left Atlanta unceremoniously, and was looking for a job. He flat out told me and I’ll quote, he goes, ‘If these people are dumb enough not to hire you, you go and do whatever you gotta do.’ I had other opportunities including satellite radio. Angelo flat out said it to me, he said whatever you got to do, you take care of your family in the way I took care of mine. You worry about your family. You worry about finding a job that works for you.

What I didn’t expect and I’ll be very honest with you, I did not expect that if you had told me the day I found out I was leaving Atlanta, that I was going to be on 97.5 The Fanatic, I wouldn’t have expected it. But I was blown away by their absolute commitment to wanting to shake things up and do some things differently. To feel wanted? Especially when anyone gets told you make too much money, we can’t afford you, so your contract is not being renewed. That was painful to me because I didn’t understand the concept. Buck and Kincade in the South, we had just celebrated our 20-year anniversary on the air in Atlanta. When you get told well we’re going to move on, we’re just going to put an unceremonious end to it, it’s a hit to the ego. It was like I can’t believe this is happening to me.

But to have people with Beasley Media, and Joe Bell who’s the market manager, and Chuck Damico who is the program director, they literally had the most low-key, highly effective sales pitch I’ve ever heard. What do you want to do? What do you want to create here? How do you see this happening? Everything was directed at me. And honestly every single other place I talked to was saying more along the lines of well here’s what we do, and we think you’d be a good fit for what we do. The blank slate is what drew me to The Fanatic. I give them a lot of credit for taking that chance of wanting to do things differently.

BN: Now that you ended up in Philly at a rival station, what impact has that had on your relationship with Angelo?

WIP's Angelo Cataldi was ready to retire. Then Marc Farzetta became a  competitor.
Philadelphia Inquirer

JK: It has not had any impact on it at all. From the moment that I began the job search, three different times during the process of deciding what I was going to do, he was one of my first calls. He counseled me along the way. I bounced some ideas off of him about who was talking to me. He was extremely supportive. The day that I decided to take the job with The Fanatic, my first call was to Angelo Cataldi. I picked up the phone and called him because I owed him that respect.

This is a man who helped me launch my career. He’s a guy who taught me and let me see the bag of tricks. David Copperfield let me backstage and I watched this man. I got to see how he performed some of his magic. I do things a lot differently than Angelo, but one thing I learned from him is that you have to have your vision, create loyalty, create connections with your audience, and nobody’s done that better in this market than Angelo Cataldi, period. Ang and I still talk at times in the five months I’ve been home. We were going to make plans to try to have lunch soon. Hopefully that’s going to happen now that all the COVID stuff has lifted.

I couldn’t be more proud to call him a mentor. I’ve had a few. Howard Eskin was a guy I interned under. Tony Bruno was a huge influencer on me, all these guys. I’m so honored that I ever just got to see them do their craft. But in a weird way, I don’t want to be any of them. I want to be my own way, my own image, my own portrayal of what I want to do and it’s because of seeing guys like that do it their way for so long that I have the ability to say, hey here’s what I want to do. Let’s go do it.

Ang couldn’t be any more gracious, any more of a class act. It’s a mutual admiration. I know he continues to kick ass. He knows I’m coming for him and he’s like okay bring it on, dude. [Laughs] I’m ready for it. It’s great because we refuse to play — Philly loves to play up a thing called radio wars. It’s because there have been personalities who’ve worked in this town who tried to create the radio war. It’s not the ‘90s. It’s not the era of Howard Stern. That’s trite. And more importantly, I don’t believe the audience cares if you like a host at another station or anything like that. That’s like high school lunch table crap to me. It’s something that never attracted me as a listener.

BN: What’s your reaction to Spike Eskin going to WFAN?

JK: Well Spike’s taking over a very prominent office; I’ll tell you that much. I had the pleasure with my network show to get to know Mark Chernoff a bit. Over the past two years, to have Mark Chernoff in my cell phone, and a few times to just be able to say, can I talk to you about something? He’d say, 2 o’clock work? 2:30 work? He always had time for me. Great kindness, great insight into the industry. He’s a freakin’ legend. To have the opportunity to have worked under him for a few years was my honor. He helped me also during the whole job search. ‘That situation might not be the best one for you. You want to work under this kind of management.’ I picked his brain. The guy is a treasure trove of information.

I’ve known Spike a long time. What I know about Spike Eskin is he’s a competitor. I think he’s going to bring a new juice to the network. He’s a guy that I think understands there’s different ways for different guys to approach things and to do their job. I think that CBS Sports Radio will be lucky to have him.

BN: Has Philly changed at all since the first time you did radio there?

JK: I know this town like the back of my hand, and I’ve got to tell you, it’s changed. That’s something that has been one of those fun parts of the first 100 days of the show, is learning that this fan base has changed since I left. It’s different than when I left in the ‘90s. I believe it’s a kinder, gentler fan base. I know anybody hearing that about Philadelphia; they’ll laugh at me. But I would completely disagree having grown up here, and having been a part of these fan bases my entire life. It’s a kinder, gentler fan base.

It’s a fan base where people really get up in their feelings about defending the athlete they love, defending the athlete from criticism. It’s interesting. I think it’s a more introspective fan base than when I left.

Conversations are different. The visceral reaction to things seems more civilized from what I remember in my youth. That has been the wildest part of the journey of getting back home here, has been getting to know my fellow fans again, and getting to know what they think, and how they feel, and how they react. I think it’s a much more relaxed fan base than it was when I left. And I never would have said anything about Philly sports was relaxed when I was growing up. It’s completely different.

BN: What do you think is the best and the worst part of Philly sports radio?

JK: The best part is I believe this market has had some of the greatest long-tenured figures sit behind microphones that have helped to shape narratives, discussions, and fan bases for generations. When you’re talking a Mike Missanelli, and a Howard Eskin, and an Angelo Cataldi; these are icons of the industry that are known countrywide. These are guys that have had major, major success. This is a hotbed of sports radio.

What I think is the worst part about it, I don’t believe there is enough reinvention of the wheel. I hear a lot of the same. I think that younger listeners want different, want to try something different, try different approaches. I think that’s what I would tend to say.

BN: What do you think is the best and worst part of Atlanta sports radio?

JK: [Laughs] Boy, I have a perfect chance there. I think the worst part of it is, in Philadelphia almost every single person turning on their radio is an Eagles fan, Sixers fan, a Phillies fan. I tell the story when I moved to Atlanta in 1995, there were 2.7 million people. When I packed up to come up to Philadelphia, Christmas vacation of this year, there were 6.8 million people in Atlanta; 4.1 million people over a quarter of a century. That’s huge. But what happened is, they didn’t just give birth to four million Falcon fans. It’s Bears fans. It’s Eagles fans. It’s Giants fans. It’s Dolphin fans that come to Atlanta.

Atlanta is a melting pot. It’s a much more difficult place to do a radio show in sports. I can tell you that. People love college football in the South. That’s great. Unfortunately the audience has six or seven different teams that have fan bases in your market. So if you go too specific, it’s a tune out for the other fan bases. And if you go too broad, people don’t hear enough about their team or enough detail, they’re not into it. It’s a very difficult tightrope to walk with the fan bases. Whereas in Philly, a Monday after an Eagles game, the show programs itself.

BN: Are you a guy where scripting teases or parts of the show helps you relax and have fun?

JK: No question. Preparation is what makes me relax and have fun. My wife and daughter call me Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory. They call me Sheldon. And they say it lovingly. But those who have ever worked with me know that there’s a hell of a lot of Sheldon Cooper in me.

I speak my mind. I don’t have a filter. I tell you exactly what I thought about a call, a segment, preparation, whatever; I’m not very good at political correctness or mincing words. It’s probably what has helped me have a good career, but it also makes it hard because everybody that I work with has to work the way I want to work. Because it’s the only way it’s going to work. If I’m going to do the show, we have to prepare the same and we have to have a routine and a regimented approach to things.

BN: What has been one of your favorite all-time memories in your sports radio career?

JK: Oh gosh. I would tell you that I don’t believe anybody in the business has my resume of fill-in hosting. I filled in for Mike Greenberg, Scott Van Pelt, Dan Patrick, Mike Tirico; I filled in four and a half years for Colin Cowherd. I don’t do Mount Rushmore shows, but if you were doing one on national sports radio, you’ve got it right there. And I filled in for all of them.

To sit in their chairs, in front of their mics, do their shows, that will forever be to me the greatest ‘oh my gosh’ feeling of the entire thing. I didn’t start full time in a media career until I was 33. To have accomplished that is truly incredible and absolutely a blessing. Just to think of all those people, and I didn’t mention a bunch of others, I’ve been very, very fortunate to do that.

BN: With as much as you’ve accomplished, is there anything else you’d like to experience?

JK: I want to have just a share of the great success that my mentors have had. Honestly I have missed my national radio audience. For 15 years doing my own show, getting to fill in for all those other great hosts over the years, I’ve missed it. It’s only been five months but I’ve missed it. I think at some point I will venture back into doing a national radio show. That is something I would like to do. But I’ve got a job to do right now. Beasley Media and The Fanatic gave me the keys to a great vehicle and they expect me to drive. They expect me to drive ratings, they expect me to drive revenue, and they expect me to make the entire radio station better. That has to be my focus and that’s my desire. I’m going to teach too. Now that I’m back in Philadelphia, I would love to teach a radio broadcasting class to college kids at my alma mater Temple University. That’s something on my list of things that I want to do.

Students walk past Samuel Paley Library on the Temple University campus, where a student died of a drug overdose on Dec. 1.
Emma Lee/WHYY

BN: Before you go, you’ve got great hair, John. I need any hair advice you have to share.

JK: Redken products. I like the Redken products. When you use a moisturizer, what you’ve got to do, guys, you don’t wash your hair that day. Don’t use shampoo and then use conditioner. Just rinse your hair and use conditioner. You don’t need to shampoo your hair every day. And I would tell guys, embrace your hair color. One thing I will never do is have my fingernails fall off from clinging to my youth.

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BSM Writers

Day Spent With: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

“What a beautiful gift to have the ability to make something that is about you; your imaginations; your principles and have it reach and imprint someone else.”

Derek Futterman

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Day Spent With – The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

We’ve reached the end of BSM’s ‘Day Spent With‘ series. I hope you’ve enjoyed reading these pieces as much as we’ve enjoyed creating them for you. I want to thank all of the brands, companies, and professionals who made time for Derek Futterman during the past two months. None of these projects work without help from a lot of quality people.

Our goal from the start of this series was to shine a light on what a day entails inside each workplace. Whether folks work in radio, digital, television, voiceover/imaging, media buying or management, consistent success can not be achieved if all departments aren’t working in sync. Fortunately, we’ve got a lot of good ones continuing to raise the bar across the sports media industry.

To close things out, we sent Derek to South Beach to spend a full day with The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz. My thanks to Dan, and the entire crew for making time for us. I also want to thank Bimal Kapadia for putting the wheels in motion. We don’t travel a lot for projects, but when this idea came up, I thought it’d be a great way to put a bow on an awesome series. I’m sure as you read the piece, you’ll agree that it offers a great peek into life on the pirate ship. I just hope Derek didn’t bring home an eye patch or lose a hand in the process.

Jason Barrett

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

A loud bell rings two minutes before the top of the hour, signifying to all those within the facilities that the show is about to begin. This tone, albeit fleeting in its duration, has a resonance that rings true throughout the entirety of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, but it is hardly the catalyst for the natural energy and congeniality exhibited inside the studio walls. There is a calculated verve and mental calmness that permeates the space combined with an inherent awareness of the expectations and commitment to its audience.

Although there are elements of improvisation and joviality within the three-and-a-half hour show, hosts and contributors do not simply enter the studio without a plan. Personnel arrive at the Meadowlark Media studios in Miami in two waves with a cognizance of news across a variety of topics. In an office space with the Port of Miami and Kaseya Center visible in the distance, the cast brainstorms potential talking points and informs those involved in audio and video production of any content they might need. Of course, part of the job is also remaining prepared for a deviation off script depending on the discussion percolating or breaking news off which to react.

Co-hosts Dan Le Batard and Jon “Stugotz” Weiner have been working together for nearly two decades, first at 790 The Ticket in Miami. The local version of the show quickly flourished through its blend of sports and other worldly discussion. There have been several different permutations over the years. Consistent through it all is knowing and accepting their roles, and embracing the sublime to the ridiculous, while enjoying content selection freedom.

“I would say that we’re following our curiosities, so I want the show to have range, but I’m going to say [it is] a sports show in costume; a sports show in disguise,” Le Batard said. “I want it to be about other things and it also has sports, but I don’t want it to be limited as a sports show.”

Le Batard and his team do not hesitate to address divisive issues head on, adopting a direct approach rather than espousing their opinions in a indirect manner. There is both deliberate and indirect self-effacing comedy within the show, which begins with a “Local Hour” broadcast streamed live on YouTube weekday mornings at 9am ET.

Consumers wait for the countdown to commence to showtime, which is set to a pulsating theme song with its wide array of cast members engaging in different activities around the facility. Conversely, Weiner is stuck in Miami traffic trying to arrive at the studio on time and dashes through the door to arrive just on time. Abstaining from the pre-show meeting, however, is usually part of the plan in how he executes his infamous “Stugotz” character that has been cultivated for nearly two decades.

“In terms of what’s going to be thrown at me, I really have no idea, and there are many, many times I don’t know what my response is going to be to some of the topics of the day until it’s actually asked to me by Dan,” Weiner said. “I’d rather just not know where I’m going to go and just go with my gut.”

On this particular version of the program, Weiner is not in the studio and in the midst of taking vacation. Miami Herald sports columnist Greg Cote is live for his weekly appearance on the program in a tradition that has become a favorite among colleagues and listeners. Le Batard opens on a somber note, discussing the sudden collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, disclosing that the program was not going to show the video of the incident.

Cote believed that the video should be shown one time just as it is any calamity, prompting Le Batard to explain his opinion on how the footage will likely be promulgated by the internet. The program then moves on to discuss Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs, who had his properties raided by authorities as part of a federal investigation pertaining to sexual assault, sex trafficking, firearms and illegal narcotics.

Over the years, industry professionals have frequently associated the word ‘pontificate’ with Le Batard, referring to how he expresses himself and often spans beyond sports. During his time at ESPN, the program had to clear certain creative elements or segment ideas with upper management. Many people began to foresee a split between Le Batard and ESPN approaching, and that resolution was eventually reached. Le Batard thinks critically and objectively about different topics, outlining his opinions about various matters on the air, and he always desired the ability to possess more creative control.

“Our show is just meant as an audio experience in a family-like environment, creating laughter and weirdness and pretending like it doesn’t know a lot of people are watching,” Le Batard said. “That needs to be protected, and we’ve thrown a lot of change at it.”

In the last several years alone, the program has enacted alterations in its process pertaining to the studio, cast members, clock, visual elements and start time. At the same time, Le Batard’s brother, David, was battling brain cancer and later passed away, but he did not want to give his audience the vulnerability associated with the hardship. Le Batard considers the creative process to be sacred and values the intimacy of their communication medium.

“I allow our most passionate fans to have strong opinions that make me reconsider mine,” Le Batard said. “I like a community that has sparks in it even if we get accused of being an echo chamber, but I would say that over the last couple of years, I have found fewer and fewer spaces where the criticism is constructive enough to be heard over all of the poisonous devices [and] rhetoric that is now internet spaces that are covered in acid and fire.”

When radio show producer Chris Cote was included in layoffs at ESPN in November 2020 without Le Batard’s knowledge, Le Batard immediately re-hired him as his assistant and offered to pay his salary. For Cote, the act was unsurprising because of Le Batard’s loyalty to his staff members and something he believed precipitated his exit from ESPN.

“That was an interesting time,” Cote recalled. “I would say I’ve made the joke on the air before that people like to blame me and say I’m the reason we left ESPN. I think what happened with me was the final straw that led to the divorce.”

Cote knew Le Batard from the time he was young since he worked with his father, Greg, at the Miami Herald. During those visits though, he did not realize Le Batard could one day be his boss. He now views it as funny that things ended up unfolding in this manner. Le Batard hosted this edition of the show with Greg Cote, someone he originally wanted as his partner on the air.

“If he and I had chosen to do the show with 20 years of reps, it would have felt like Larry David and the late Richard Lewis,” Le Batard said. “It would have been a chemistry because our friendship is real. It’s not borne of television; it’s not borne of broadcasting.”

“My dad brings that special sauce that Stugotz brings to the show where we’re talking about sports and then he says something, and the next thing we know, we’re spending 10 minutes just making fun of something he said,” Cote added. “My dad is like the gift that never stops giving. He’s just a gold mine for random stuff that has nothing to do with the conversation we’re trying to have, and he’s a content factory.”

The character of ‘Stugotz’ is not as much acting as it is an exaggerated version of who Weiner genuinely is in his life. On the show, he tries to represent how most people consume sports, affirming that Le Batard does it in a different manner. Part of his inspiration came from Christopher “Mad Dog” Russo, longtime radio host at WFAN and SiriusXM. Weiner believes that things clicked when he started to mock him rather than try and successfully facsimile his approach.

Part of the allure and mystique around ‘Stugotz’ is in his absences and fans not knowing when he will be on the show. As time has progressed, the character has appeared on other programs such as the God Bless Football and STUpodity podcasts, but he has long been synonymous as Le Batard’s sidekick who is relatable and intriguing. When he is missing from the program, the show rebrands its graphics to read “The Dan Le Batard Show without Stugotz” and plays off the aura of the personality.

“I wish it was my idea, I’m upset that it wasn’t my idea and this is the first I’m finding out about it,” Weiner said. “You’re telling me they do this every time I’m not there? Well two things – it shows, (a), how much attention I’m paying to the show when I’m not there, which is slightly less than I am when I am there, and No. 2 is my reaction to it. Me laughing is what makes our show our show. I’m pissed that I didn’t come up with the idea; I am proud of them for coming up with that idea and executing it. It’s laugh-out-loud funny.”

Le Batard and Stugotz broadcast their show facing a pane of transparent glass, behind which lies an addendum to the studio space. Chris Cote is part of the group within the “Shipping Container,” a room containing different producers and contributors who operate audio equipment, coordinate guest appearances and frequently contribute to the conversation. Both areas are adorned with artwork and sports memorabilia from the city of Miami. Mike Ryan (Ruiz) has been part of this labyrinth for several years, especially when he served as the show’s executive producer. In the present moment, this role is filled by several different personnel who rotate depending on schedule and show needs.

“The best shows are when there’s a lot of creative energy bouncing off one another [and] a lot of workshopping because this is basically a writers’ room where we trade off ideas and we try to figure out, ‘Who’s the best vessel for this joke?,’” Ryan said. “Sometimes we feed it to one of the talents; sometimes someone else says it here.”

Joining Ryan in the Shipping Container during this show were Billy Gil, JuJu Gotti and Anthony Calatayud. The live-streamed “Local Hour” is packed with topics and news the show discussed beforehand. Every hour of the program averages approximately 40 minutes on the podcast side and contains two breaks, each with a two-minute duration. Once the hour ends, Le Batard and the staff usually take a 15-minute intermission before resuming the show.

“We have a show that is kind of imperceptible when Dan isn’t driving a show,” Ryan said. “It’s this amorphous ensemble, and the trick is to not let anybody really know that there is a perceived leader – that it’s all just a free-flowing conversation – and I think that that’s a delicate balance that comes with time and developing chemistry.”

Gil was responsible for executive producing this edition of the show, running the audio board and coordinating with the television producers. When Le Batard mentioned Alan Thicke, Gil sifted through audio archives to track down something related to the topic. Additionally, he was taking notes to denote different titles and descriptions for segments geared to be released in podcast form.

“A lot of times, we’re trying to come up with jokes for Stugotz,” Gil said. “There’ll be days where naturally just bits will form, so then we’re getting sound for the bits; having voices done for the bits; kind of putting that together so there’s opens [and] closes. If a top-five or something comes up naturally, figuring out the top five. There’s a lot of in-show production and things going on that if you’re listening, we’ve gotten away with people being like, ‘Oh wow, that’s a lot of prep,’ and it’s like, ‘It happened on the fly.’”

Le Batard and former ESPN president John Skipper founded Meadowlark Media in 2021, a content studio with a wide array of programming and partnerships spanning sports and entertainment. The move was liberating to many show members and has been built out through The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz and other programs available in both audio and video formats. Le Batard’s show in particular has significantly expanded the staff situated within its Shipping Container with young and dynamic talent.

JuJu Gotti, for example, landed the job as the show’s social media manager through a friendship he forged with Ryan. Gotti gained attention when he revealed to Mike Golic and Trey Wingo that he had a tattoo of Greg Cote and was later featured on the program. Even though he does not live in the area, Gotti travels to the city once every two weeks where he provides his opinions and monitors social media platforms. Later in the day, Gotti participates in several meetings with the Miami-based Meadowlark Media team and continues his other work.

“I look at it like it’s a blessing to wake up every day, so anything beyond that is triple exciting because the people who are in the Shipping Container with me [are] not necessarily bad people at all,” Gotti said. “I enjoy hanging with them and talking to them, so it feels wonderful.”

After working as a video producer for Sports Illustrated, Jessica Smetana joined Meadowlark Media in its early stages and is on the verge of her third year with the company. Growing up as a devoted fan of ESPN and Le Batard’s program, she understands that there are diversified interests and opinions. Smetana does not hesitate to present her perspectives on different matters, such as the demise of Sports Illustrated amid uncertainty towards its future with a change in publishers.

“I don’t want to regret not saying what’s on my mind a month from now when I see a bunch of my friends out of jobs,” Smetana explained, “so I think it just comes from not wanting to hold anything back when some of those topics come up.”

Meadowlark Media and DraftKings agreed to a distribution deal in 2021 where The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, along with programs across the “Le Batard & Friends Network” are disseminated to a variety of different outlets. Ninety minutes of Le Batard’s show airs live on DraftKings Network every day as part of a two-hour programming block, the final 30 minutes of which is a replay of selected material from earlier in the show.

Within the ensuing hours of the show, which includes interviews with journalists Jemele Hill and Tim Kurkjian, Le Batard poses interview questions to his guests surrounding current events and new projects. The show also welcomes Amin Elhassan to the studio, who occasionally fills in as a host while also growing his Oddball podcast.

Le Batard, Cote and Elhassan are in the main studio and speak with those in the “Shipping Container” through the glass. Weiner believes the wide array of voices and perspectives keeps the show young and relevant as he and Le Batard continue to grow older. In watching the show evolve over time, Le Batard evinces that the new cast members coerce the audience to face unpredictability and leads to the show deviating from doing things in the exact same ways as it had previously.

As the newest member of the program, Lucy Rohden splits her time between the Shipping Container and reporting around the country. She was recently in Iowa covering the first round of the NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Tournament, including watching her alma mater Iowa Hawkeyes and star guard Caitlin Clark.

“I found that traveling and creating content on the road is what I enjoy doing most, and so if that means sacrificing time on the show to get to do that, that’s sort of worth it for me,” Rohden said. “But it’s still something I’m balancing and learning how to do, and it’s something that the show is also balancing and learning how to incorporate because they haven’t really had an on-the-road correspondent before, so it’s still a work in progress, but lots of caffeine.”

Smetana and Rohden are the only two women who are in the Shipping Container. They have developed a friendship while working together. When Rohden first joined the show, Smetana helped her assimilate into the program and a new city. Both realized how important it is to include women on the show, especially with the proliferation of women’s sports.

“It’s always disheartening for me when I’m watching a sports show and I’m looking for someone who looks like me or who I relate to,” Rohden said, “and so I think it’s really great for (1), just rounding out the show, and Jess is unbelievably funny and talented, and I believe I do the same.”

“Obviously women’s sports has exploded in the last five years and it continues to explode, and I think there’s still a huge number of really popular sports shows in the U.S. that don’t have any women on them, which I think is crazy,” Smetana added. “But I still think even though I’m on the show now, we obviously could still do better.”

Part of the allure of the program for Weiner is in the unknown of who will be in the Shipping Container on a given day. The show has several contributors and content creators who follow changing schedules, and many of them partake in other projects both related to and outside of Meadowlark Media. Roy Bellamy, for example, started working with the program as an intern at 790 The Ticket and has been involved through various iterations over the years.

During the show, Bellamy focuses on his work and carefully selects when he will speak. A passion for hockey has led him to create a new podcast, titled The Hockey Show, which he recently debuted with co-host David Dwork. While Bellamy reviews metrics and other performance-related information, being able to interact with the fans and hear their opinion on the show is meaningful and keeps him motivated.

“I would say there are a lot of people that come up to us on the street and tell us just how much their lives have been bettered or change or how they got through issues, such as the pandemic, just based on listening to our show,” Bellamy said, “so the impact is there, and the impact is felt and it’s huge.”

Unlike a preponderance of live radio shows, the program does not usually implement callers and instead reviews messages in chat rooms or on social media during the episode. Those in the studio and Shipping Container can communicate with one another through microphone talkback and/or between segments, allowing them to integrate different show components in real time. In Las Vegas, members of the show stayed afterwards for a meet-and-greet session with the audience, providing them a chance to thank their fans. The experience resonated with producer Anthony Calatayud, who recognizes how the show has withstood internal and external changes to realize widespread societal acceptance.

“I think the personal touch in the community that the show has created with people that don’t know each other from all different parts of the globe – that they’re able to sit down and be like, ‘Oh, you get the show? Perfect, I get the show too,’ and have a camaraderie about that is something that can’t be measured with numbers, with money or with anything like that,” Calatayud said. “I think the impact of that is lasting.”

As the show reaches its conclusion within its postgame hour, it continues its ‘March Sadness’ bracket by reviewing entries within the ‘Greg Cote division.’ Preceding this segment was a review of a basketball take from ESPN host Mike Greenberg and another version of ‘Back in My Day’ with Greg Cote.

Once everyone involved in the show emerges from the studio and subsequent control rooms, there are more meetings to be had throughout the day about new content ideas, initiatives and other business matters. Audio and video editors are simultaneously diligently working around the office to deliver the final product en masse. Jeremy Taché is the primary audio editor for the program and also contributes within the Shipping Container a few days per week.

“I have to stay focused on the show every day and plugged in, whether I’m on the air or not,” Taché outlined. “I also write our titles and descriptions for our podcast episodes, so I’m always kind of trying to think, ‘What are the biggest jokes? What are the ones that landed?’”

The Meadowlark Media facility in Miami has an additional production studio that is used to record various podcasts and other audiovisual content. There are days where the studios are packed with shows moving in and out, whereas other afternoons are relatively quiet in terms of new productions.

Meadowlark Media has offices in New York City as well, and signed deals with companies to continue moving into the content space. The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, for example, is available to stream on Max with the B/R Sports Add-On. All The Smoke Productions also agreed to a strategic content partnership with the company for its flagship podcast hosted by former NBA players Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson.

“We all dream-build over here at Meadowlark, and we’re hoping that it can go to really, really impressive places,” Ryan said. “I don’t mean to sound like we haven’t already accomplished some pretty impressive things so far. The company is growing in great ways, and adding All The Smoke, those are two really reputable talents that give us something in our locker that we didn’t really have before – players’ perspective and a real, true name that you can put up in the marquee there next to Dan’s show.”

Weiner believes that his time on the show is finite, asserting that he does not believe he or Le Batard will want to continue in their sixties. Projecting outward, they want to ensure they provide a professional working environment where employees can create and thrive in the job they want. There exists a possibility where they could one day take over the show, which will be moving to a new location in a few years. For now though, everyone involved is trying to enjoy the ride and help precipitate continued growth.

“I’ve always said the key to our show is Dan’s happiness,” Weiner conveyed. “He’s the straw that stirs the drink, and so in an odd way as frustrating as I can be and as frustrated as I make him, he’s a creature of habit, and having me next to him makes him more comfortable, and I think he would probably acknowledge that. Our staff knows how to produce me in a way that they don’t know how to produce anybody because they’ve been doing it for 20 years.”

“What a beautiful gift to have the ability to make something that is about you; your imaginations; your principles and have it reach and imprint someone else,” Le Batard said. “To be able to express yourself freely is something that my parents fled Cuba so that their kids would have the ability to be a writer in one case, and in the case of my late little brother, an artist. Freedom of expression and freedom in general is why I live in this country.”

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‘NHL on TNT’ Gives Hockey Fans the ‘NBA on TNT’ Treatment

Watching Albert and Olczyk call a hockey game is like watching Picasso paint and da Vinci sculpt. They are masters of their respective crafts.

John Molori

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NHL on TNT studio

Let’s play a little word association, sports media style. If I say TNT, what is your response? Chances are it will be a three-letter abbreviation of your own, namely, NBA. Over the years, TNT has built a reputation as arguably the premiere network to telecast the National Basketball Association.

The NBA on TNT pregame and halftime shows have become the gold standard with stars like Ernie Johnson, Jr., Kenny Smith, Charles Barkley, and Shaquille O’Neal. Still, it’s not just this quartet of roundball royalty that has fortified TNT’s hoops coverage.

The rep was also built on tremendous play-by-play announcers like Bob Neal and Kevin Harlan, color analysts like Doug Collins and Reggie Miller, and courtside reporters like the late Craig Sager and current sideline star Allie LaForce.

Indeed, TNT and the NBA have become synonymous, but I have some news for you. This network is not just about professional basketball. This past week I went off the grid with TNT looking at their in-game and studio coverage of the NHL.

On March 24, the NHL on TNT provided coverage of the Pittsburgh Penguins at Colorado Avalanche matchup. Kenny Albert did play-by-play with Eddie Olczyk on color. Albert is not as noted as his legendary broadcasting father Marv Albert, but he has certainly staked his claim as one of the best in the business – able to cross over to multiple sports with equal aplomb.

Hockey is a strong suit for Albert. His rat-tat-tat, drama-building style draws viewers in and keeps us on the edge of our seats. Similarly, Olczyk is one of the top four or five NHL game analysts in the business. His style is understated, providing calm and clear analysis of key plays. They work really well together.

Albert eschews any kind of hackneyed and trite catch phrases for his goal calls. An emphatic, “He shoots and scores!” is plenty enough.

Hockey is a different beast when it comes to play-by-play. Unlike basketball, baseball, football, or even soccer and tennis, there is a minimum of breaks in the action. With hockey, a play-by-play announcer has to know the names of the players like he or she knows her kids’ names.

To me, it is the hardest sport for play-by-play and equally difficult for a color analyst. In basketball, after a team scores, the play-by-play announcer will keep silent and give the color analyst time to talk until the play crosses center court. In baseball and football, there is ample room for commentary.

Hockey does not offer such space, but Olczyk gets the most out of the minimal amount of time. Watching Albert and Olczyk call a hockey game is like watching Picasso paint and da Vinci sculpt. They are masters of their respective crafts.

Coming back from a break in the game, Albert and Olczyk provided on air commentary and then tossed to ice level reporter Brian Boucher who has grown into a tremendous asset to the TNT broadcasts. Boucher provided real talk about Colorado’s objectives of staying on top of their division and vying for the top seed in the Western Conference.

The Penguins, squarely in a rebuilding year having dumped talent at the NHL trade deadline, surprisingly jumped out to a 2–0 lead in this game, and the TNT between periods studio crew was all over it. The excellent Liam McHugh hosted alongside Colby Armstrong, Anson Carter, and Keith Yandle.

Armstrong was especially entertaining. With Pittsburgh outshooting the Avs 16-4, Armstrong noted that it’s the best he’s seen Pittsburgh play in a long time. His reasoning was that teams get geared up for playing Colorado even if it’s out of fear. Great stuff.

Both teams tallied two goals in the second period giving Pittsburgh a 4-2 lead heading into the final frame. When Colorado’s Nathan MacKinnon set up Jonathan Drouin for a goal to make it 4-3, Albert and Olczyk showed their strengths.

Albert called the pass from MacKinnon and one-timer goal from Drouin, and immediately noted that MacKinnon now had a point in all 34 of Colorado’s home games this season. On the goal replay, Olczyk showed how the play developed pointing out how McKinnon allowed Pittsburgh’s Evgenii Malkin to come in close before making the past to Drouin.

The TNT production team then showed a graphic displaying that McKinnon is now second all-time in longest home points streaks trailing only Wayne Gretzky. This was a sublime sequence of symmetry between talent and technicians like a songwriter, musician, and singer creating beautiful music.

What was supposed to be a blowout win for Colorado had now become a hockey barn burner, and the TNT crew was up to the task. Every goal and key play was followed up with replays from multiple angles showing the genesis of the action.

TNT has certainly taken to the velocity of the hockey broadcast with movement that challenges directors, graphics professionals, and videographers.

When there were breaks in this non-stop action, Olczyk was at his best. No hockey analyst draws on his experience as a player and explains that experience better to viewers. The TNT broadcast also lets Boucher freewheel and join in the flow of discussion without having to be introduced.

TNT does not merely rely on the traditional wide shot of the entire rink. We see close-up shots of each goaltender after a great save and the sweat of players on the bench or in the penalty box.

When McKinnon tied the game at 4-4 with 4:38 left in the third period, we got a series of tremendous crowd shots showing the Colorado fans going absolutely berserk. The sage Albert and Olczyk wisely remained quiet for several seconds, letting the cheers do the talking.

When Drouin scored the game winner at 4:06 of overtime, Albert exercised controlled enthusiasm, raising his voice on the call of the goal, but not becoming the show and overshadowing the play itself. He is definitely in the mold of Dan Kelly, Gary Thorne, and Sean McDonough, announcers who enhance but do not supersede the game.

Putting a cherry on top of this hockey Sunday, TNT showed a graphic that the Avalanche now led the NHL in comeback wins this season with 25 and that they were riding a 9-game winning streak. In analyzing the goal, Olczyk opined that the altitude of playing in Colorado was prevalent as the Penguins seemed to tire as the game progressed – really interesting insight.

In the postgame show, Anson Carter made a great point that the chemistry between Drouin and MacKinnon stems from the fact that they have been playing together going back to junior hockey. McKinnon joined in from the arena for a postgame interview. The analysts asked solid questions and even did a funny MVP chant together as the interview ended.

The NHL on TNT takes no back seat to its elder NBA sister. The broadcast provides viewers with flash, dash, and serious hockey talk from every angle – in studio, from the broadcast booth, and on the ice.

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How to Help Your Clients with Low Website Conversions

Don’t assume there isn’t enough traffic; focus on optimizing user engagement once visitors arrive on the site.

Jeff Caves

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Graphic for how to increase website conversions
Credit: WPDesigner.Biz

Are your clients dealing with low website conversions? Whenever a marketing campaign is run, and the goal is to convert website visitors into leads, the temptation is to blame low traffic, amongst other issues, for low form fills or appointments being generated.  Just spend more money, you may think! Sometimes, you must look at at least four other potential issues to tackle poor conversion rates. Here are some actionable steps using the IT services industry to increase website conversions.

IT Solutions specializes in providing products, services, or solutions related to technology, particularly in areas such as software development, hardware sales, IT consulting, cybersecurity, cloud computing, networking, and digital transformations. They faced challenges with their website conversions. Despite driving substantial traffic through Google Ads and other SEO tactics, they struggled to convert website visitors into form fills for appointment requests. A 2% to 5% conversion rate could be considered reasonable. Of course, conversion rates can vary based on various factors, such as the competitiveness of the local market, the quality of the website (and radio stations help most to fix that) and its user experience, the effectiveness of marketing campaigns, and the reputation and offerings of the IT solutions business. Focusing on improving the quality of leads and providing exceptional customer service can be just as crucial as achieving high conversion rates. Don’t blame EVERYTHING on the marketing tactics! 

The Diagnosis

Upon thorough analysis, several critical issues were identified with IT Solutions’ website:

1. High Bounce Rate: Nobody was checking out the business. If 70% or more of website visitors only visit the landing page, that is an issue.  It could be slow loading times, irrelevant content, poor user experience, or unclear calls-to-action that prevent them from wanting to know more about IT Solutions. You can check the bounce rate on the Google Analytics page for the website in the left-hand sidebar, click on “Behavior” to expand the menu, then click on “Site Content,” and finally, click on “Landing Pages.” You’ll see a list of landing pages and their respective bounce rates.

2. Complex Navigation: It was hard to move around the website to find relevant information about IT services, and it was unclear who they were initiating contact with and for what purpose.

3. Unclear Calls-to-Action (CTAs): The website lacked clear and compelling CTAs guiding visitors toward requesting an appointment. Simply stating “click here for an appointment” is like asking for a meeting whenever or without establishing value. Here are 28 CTAs for free.

4. Lengthy Forms: The appointment forms were long, without qualifying information, and requested excessive information upfront, deterring potential leads from completing them.

Action Plan

1. Optimize Landing Pages:

   – Redo high-traffic landing pages with clear messaging and compelling CTAs.

   – Showcase IT Solutions’ services as benefits, making it easier for users to request appointments, thereby increasing user engagement and conversions.

2. Simplify Navigation:

   – Reorganize the menu and add more action-oriented links.

   – Provide additional options for users to access relevant information, such as “Get a free IT Solutions 15-point checkup NOW” and “Take this 5-question survey to diagnose your IT issues,” motivating them to book appointments.

3. Enhance CTAs:

   – Utilize concise and persuasive messaging throughout the website.

   – Encourage visitors to take action, whether requesting a free download about “5 things you can do to solve your IT issues on your own” or “get a free pizza for booking an appointment.”

4. Improve the Form Fill:

   – Add a further line about the number of employees who qualify for incoming leads.

   – Highlight the value of leads based on company size, prioritizing forms with higher potential impact.

Review landing pages, navigation, CTAs, and form experience to address website conversion issues. Don’t assume there isn’t enough traffic; focus on optimizing user engagement once visitors arrive on the site.

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