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2022 BSM Summit – March 3, 2022 (Day 2)

“Check back throughout the day for updates on all of the latest developments from day two of the 2022 BSM Summit.”

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Jason Barrett takes the stage to introduce Day 2 of the BSM Summit, thanking the partners who helped make this event happen. Jason announces that the 11:15 a.m. ET “Dominating Digital” will only be WWE’s Steve Braband as ESPN’s Mike Foss was unable to attend.

But the big news is that Mike and the Mad Dog, Mike Francesa and Chris Russo, will reunite for the awards ceremony beginning at 11:50 a.m to present the Mike & the Mad Dog Award to Mike Felger and Tony Massarotti for the country’s best local sports show.

Already planning for next year’s BSM Summit, the location has not yet been determined. But it will take place out west.

Jason shares data from Edison Research’s Share of Ear study that shows younger listeners gravitating toward podcasts, while older consumers are sticking with radio. Yet the overall takeway is good news: Audio listening is increasing across demographics and regions.

9:10-9:50 – The Power Panel Revisited presented by

  • Jeff Sottolano – Audacy
  • Steve Cohen – SiriusXM
  • Bruce Gilbert – Cumulus Media/Westwood One
  • Don Martin – iHeart Media/Premiere Radio Networks/FOX Sports Radio

Jeff Sottolano – Audacy
Outlets need to focus on distribution, how to reach the audience that is increasingly going to podcasts rather than listening to radio. But that presents an opportunity. The ears are there; they’ve just moved.

We need to spend less time thinking about the boxes and more about the content that goes into those boxes. How much content ends up going into the ether? But with clips, we can make sure that content is available and listeners can find, for instance, everything we have on the New York Giants.

We need to be audience-agnostic. Listeners increasingly care less about where they’re getting audio.

How can new program directors, brand managers be developed? – We need to make sure roles are established and restored, so that pathways are available for those managers to develop. We have to invest in people with leadership potential. That applies to talent as well.

Don Martin – iHeart Media/ Premiere Radio Networks/FOX Sports Radio
We have a massive platform for podcasting. Colin Cowherd is an example who is working across mediums — radio, podcasts, social media, video — to reach different segments of the audience.

The infighting within our game needs to stop. It’s all the same business. On-demand podcasts and radio content aren’t separate; they just provide different value depending on where and when you’re listening. We make the message. How do we move this forward together?

Companies must invest in the back end. You need to put a great team together to push the content, to push the talent.

How can new program directors, brand managers be developed? – We need self-starters. People have to want it and go get it. It’s not up to us to make young people care, potential managers care. They have to care. We can teach them the rest. But it starts there and we can take them to the top.

Bruce Gilbert – Cumulus Media/Westwood One
Some talent is better at unique podcast content than others. So a podcast strategy is necessary. Who at the operation is best suited to carry that initiative out? Content is important, but distribution is king. It has to be available where people can find it.

For metrics, what we get is a small sampling of the actual audience. But the cream rises to the top, which is what the charts and data show. Talent, branding, and distribution is the most important.

Nielsen is doing the best it can, but the sample is way too small. There’s a lot of anecedotal information, but we need more analytics. Behavior needs to be measured. Where are people listening? What are they doing while listening. It’s important to be everywhere.

Steve Cohen – SiriusXM
My job is to get you listening wherever you are. Ultimately, this comes down to talent and giving the audience the programming it wants. But what we do with podcasting is different from radio, providing “snackable” content to meet the needs of the audience. Live doesn’t matter as much anymore for sports talk.

It all starts off with programming. Look at movies. Something can be No. 1, but it’s a bad movie. But it was promoted well. People were told about it. There was a game plan. The company believed in the product.

Do ratings matter? – The important thing to determine is “Do you like my radio show? Are you listening to my radio show?” If the fans listening to our channels like that programming, we’re doing our job. But we have to stay on top of what’s going on. Pat McAfee was huge for us. That was a game-changer. It showed us there was a different way to do this.

9:50-10:25 – Betting on Sports Media presented by

  • Ari Borod – Fanatics
  • Brian Angiolet – DraftKings
  • Mike Raffensperger – FanDuel

— Moderated by Joe Fortenbaugh of ESPN’s Daily Wager

Mike Raffensperger – FanDuel
Fantasy sports have a built-in, unique advantage in creating sports betting content, reaching those customers.

Our content partnerships continue to grow. What helps is that even for people who aren’t sports bettors, sports betting content is interesting content and we can utilize that. Personalities who enjoy betting like Charles Barkley can help us, give customers something to hook onto.

Pat McAfee is someone who moves the needle for our business. He’s thinking about things we can launch together, looking ahead to events like March Madness and helping to plan strategy. Talent needs to have an authentic relationship with the audience. We’re not giving him an ad read. He has an active role in reaching out to listeners.

Brian Angiolet – DraftKings
We’ve been successful expanding from Daily Fantasy Sports (DFS) content with new products to reach an audience we already have and use that to reach bettors.

To promote our brand, talent has to be at the forefront to present authenticity. But there has to be a mix between traditional campaigns and creating content that reaches the audience in an authentic fashion, rather than just trying to sell something.

What do you value in new partners? – Media companies still tend to look at content as inventory. Relevancy, interpretation, making this more approachable is extremely important. And a live read doesn’t always convey that. We need to work together on ideas.

Ari Borod – Fanatics
What are the best aspects of the fan experience for sports and how do we build on that? Where will those fans be five years from now, 10 years from now?

If a media company or personality goes into partnerships with our companies simply to make money or if our companies just look at how much money can be made, it won’t be as productive. There has to be buy-in on both sides. We have to work harder to educate media markets and the audience.

What do you value in new partners? – The approach has to be, “Let’s do this together.” We know what’s important to us, but they might have an idea of what they want to say.

Joe Fortenbaugh – ESPN
Betting content needs to make sure it educates the audience. “Picks, picks, picks” is reliable content and it’s what people want. But there are so many terms, different sorts of bets that viewers and listeners don’t know about or need to learn about. Future content needs to take that into consideration as it builds.

10:25-11:00 – The Craig Carton Conversation presented by

  • Craig Carton – WFAN

Act 2 of Carton’s career, doing a show with Evan Roberts – It all started because Bart Scott said no! But there was a thought that because of the success of Mike & the Mad Dog that there had to be hard sports talk in the afternoon, unlike the morning. I disagreed with that. We have to be entertaining. I chose Evan because he represented things I never could or even try to.

How did you know a lighter approach would work in afternoons? – Total ego. I know how to attract an audience. We have to teach the audience what to expect. There’s a whole new audience that doesn’t know what Mike & the Mad Dog.

You can’t quit on what you’re doing. You have to give it three months. You have to train the audience. Sports is the baseline, but if you are tunnel-vision focused on just sports, I think you lose the audience. Not every bit comes out the way I want it to, so I have to look back at how the audience responded.

Twitter is fake. We pay too much attention to what’s going on there. Ratings, phone calls, tell you want the audience wants, what they’re listening to.

My kids don’t know radio exists. That’s a big problem for us going forward. We just have to produce good content and repurpose that content to where people can find it. Pat McAfee does such a good job of repurposing clips, going beyond what the live show is. If he was on radio, he’d be getting killed. We need to do a better job with that. We need to repurpose the best of our content.

Marketing to sports betting listeners – I’m a compulsive gambler. I’ve gone four years without making a wager now. Audacy doesn’t make me read that stuff on the air. They let me do a public service on Saturdays talking about gambling addiction. But I partnered with FanDuel because they’re responsible with their content.

I listen to a lot of gambling shows out there. No offense, but they’re full of shit. The betting expert does not exist. I think the best content is to just talk about the games. We can get into the spreads, but talk about the teams, what’s going on, and make a decision based on the information you have.

Working with program directors, planning shows – We don’t do a good enough job of teaching people how to do radio. It bothers me when I turn on the radio and hear them clearly mailing it in because they didn’t prepare. I’m there three hours before the show; I’m locked in. I know what I’m doing at 4:15.

COVID, in a weird way, exposed who didn’t know what they were talking about. The guys who are still here know what they’re doing. People might know more sports than I do. But they don’t know how to keep an audience.

You have to get out there and figure out what people are talking about. In Philadelphia, we never talked baseball. It was outlawed. You get to New York, you better know baseball. You have to figure out who you are as a show, who you are in a particular market. But who you are on the air doesn’t have to be who you are off the air. Figure out what you do well, what you don’t do well. I can’t read off a script. I know that.

I’m a radio geek. I love radio. We can reach an audience in ways no place else can. Podcasts can’t do it. TV can’t do it. Radio connects with the audience, and I love that. I love radio. I want to do radio for a long time. I missed it. I’m grateful to have been given another opportunity.

After a quick break, the 2022 BSM Summit returns for its next session.

11:15-11:50 – Dominating Digital presented by

  • Maggie Gray – CBS Sports Radio
  • Steve Braband – WWE

# Last-minute change: Mike Foss was unable to attend

Steve Braband – WWE
The biggest challenge was educating others while we were educating ourselves. We had to be almost like Kindergarten teachers in educating on digital content, platforms like YouTube, and social media.

Digital and social has come a far way from being the island of misfit toys. So much time and effort has been put into creating these platforms and it’s been gratifying to see how successful it’s been, how it’s broken through. Let people fail. Not everything is going to work. But trying is important. It may end up working for something else. Just don’t repeat those mistakes.

The linear television, documentary, digital, and social teams have to communicate with each other. There can’t be silos where this team is doing one thing and this team is doing another. You have to meet with everyone and discuss strategy, what stories are being pushed, which current stars are being pushed. But we have to understand each department’s goals — What matters to PR, what matters to sales, what matters to partners — and how we can work together.

Tik Tok has presented an opportunity for clips and videos that might not do as well on TV, like bloopers. We had a promo where Rey Mysterio was doing pull-ups in the background and then he fell. That didn’t make it to TV, but we put it on Tik Tok and people loved it. So that’s created a new opportunity and we’re going through our archival video now for moments like that to share.

The Miz is someone who goes to our team and asks how he can help them. What do they want to try? Or he’ll bring ideas to them to see if they could work. If you aren’t following him on Tik Tok, you should. He’s bought all the way in and it’s been really successful. More of our stars are getting that.

11:50-12:15 – BSM Summit Awards Ceremony presented by

The Mark Chernoff AwardRick Radzik, 98.5 The Sports Hub

A video tribute to Mark Chernoff includes highlights from his career, including appearances on Don Imus’s show and WFAN’s Mike & the Mad Dog and Boomer & Gio, and testimony on him pushing the sports radio format forward.

Introducing Rick Radzik, a congratulatory video from 98.5 The Sports Hub executives and on-air talent with praise and compliments plays. Among the remarks: “Best program director ever.” (One employee took the opportunity to say he needs Monday off.)

Accepting the award, Radzik thanks Chernoff, crediting him as a pioneer for the work he did at WFAN, setting a standard and path to success for so many to follow. He thanks the staff at The Sports Hub that helps produce great programming each day and keeps the station running smoothly, allowing everyone to do their best work.

On a personal note, Radzik dedicates the award to his late wife, who fell to cancer three years ago. He thanks her for the perspective she gave him and their daughters on life moving forward.

The Mike & the Mad Dog AwardMike Felger & Tony Massarotti, 98.5 The Sports Hub

Jason Barrett says he’s been thinking of creating an award to credit local sports radio for a long time. No one did more with the format than Mike & the Mad Dog, “blazing the trail for what so many of us enjoy today.” That leads to a video with a few of Mike and the Mad Dog’s best moments on radio and subsequent reunions on radio and TV, such as on MLB Network’s High Heat.

Mike Francesa and Chris Russo reminisce about the 2001 World Series between the New York Yankees and Arizona Diamondbacks, inspired by some of the clips shown in the video. The two them talk about making families and seeing each other’s children grow.

“It’s been 14 years, believe it or not, since Mike & the Mad Dog,” said Francesa. “We could not only do a good show, but could fill a building today.”

Francesa expresses gratitude for this award being named after their show. When they started out, there was no sports talk. But with a lot of support — including from Don Imus, who was crucial — Mike & the Mad Dog took off and launched the sports radio format across the country, in addition to inspiring debate TV like Pardon the Interruption.

The sports talk guy used to be the low man on the radio station totem pole. Now, they’re the most important person at many stations.

Russo calls it a “perfect storm,” with good teams in New York and an audience willing to listen for 24 hours a day. He also credits Radio Row at the Super Bowl for showing how the format was working in so many places and showing businesses this was a product to invest in.

Francesa and Russo took questions from the audience and looked back on their long career together. Francesa admitted that when he got afternoon drive at WFAN, which he always coveted, he didn’t want a partner. But he was convinced to give Russo a chance. It didn’t take long to realize that they had something.

But their long run together included some significant friction between the two when they weren’t talking to each other except for when they were on their air. Even during commercial breaks! Francesa admitted that he didn’t want Russo at his wedding, but his wife invited him and if not for that, Mike & the Mad Dog probably wouldn’t have survived as long as it did.

Following the Q&A, Francesa and Russo introduce a video of Felger & Mazz highlights. Felger and Massarotti were unable to attend the BSM Summit due to scheduling conflicts, but recorded a thank-you video for the award, expressing gratitude to The Sports Hub and the Boston fans for their success. They also thanked Mike and the Mad Dog for their pioneering work, saying they were honored to win an award named after them.

The 2022 BSM Summit takes a one-hour lunch, and then returns for the second half, led off by a conversation with Meadowlark Media CEO, John Skipper.

1:30-2:15 – The Day 2 Keynote Conversation presented by

  • John Skipper – Meadowlark Media

Asked about the decision to launch Meadowlark Media, Skipper says he and Dan Le Batard had discussed a joint venture for a long time. So when Le Batard left ESPN, they announced their new endeavor very soon thereafter.

Meadowlark’s deal with DraftKings gave them the money to start the business and look to expand quickly. The company didn’t have to worry about licensing content and DraftKings helps with distribution. The partnership has worked very well so far.

Most of the company’s content is in audio right now. Le Batard still loves terrestrial radio, which is demonstrated in producing a quality show. Putting content online has provided unique opportunities, such as the live reaction shows which have been very successful.

Our business model is to have an idea, develop the idea, take it to potential partners for production, rather than try to produce and finance those projects ourselves. Going into Spanish-language content and women’s sports content are initiatives they probably couldn’t pursue if Meadowlark wasn’t its own company that can take projects to other studios and outlets.

People say they want to do more women’s sports, but they don’t want to pay for it. So we’ll make it, then find the right place for it, Skipper said.

“The status quo will eventually overtake you and stifle creativity,” said Skipper. “You have to try new things.”

Skipper points out that Le Batard had a long run at ESPN, but him leaving shows how relationships and ambitions evolve. Le Batard wanted to do content ESPN preferred him not to, and ESPN wanted Le Batard to do more of what the network asked. Skipper uses Bill Simmons as another example of how things can change, regardless of how well each side may have previously benefited. He credits Simmons with helping his success at ESPN, boosting ESPN.com and creating the popular 30 for 30 documentary series.

It’s hard to break through in the podcast space, but Meadowlark has an advantage with Dan’s show, a tentpole to build around and use to steer listeners to other shows on the network. Personality allows you to drive audience, Skipper says. That allows Meadowlark to take chances like on audio documentaries like its upcoming The Mayor of Maple Avenue on the Jerry Sandusky case.

Skipper says the future of sports is streaming. He believes there are some NFL owners who think the Super Bowl should be on pay-per-view. Look at what’s happening in Europe with soccer. If you wanted to watch La Liga, you needed beIN SPORTS. (Now you’ll need ESPN+.) That will likely happen in the United States eventually. Amazon getting Thursday Night Football is probably the first step in this process.

“You’re going to miss your pay TV when it’s gone because it was easier,” said Skipper.

2:15-2:50 – Talk To My Agent presented by

  • Kevin Belbey – CAA
  • Heather Cohen – The Weiss Agency
  • Mark Lepselter – MAXX Sports & Entertainment Group
  • Mike McVay – McVay Media

Heather Cohen – The Weiss Agency
Not everyone should have an agent. Not everyone is ready for an agent or needs one. An agent can be good for talent and management; we’re the buffer in between. It’s important for us to manage expectations, but get a deal done, find a compromise that’s good for both sides.

Transparency is very important. Give me the ratings, give me the data. I need to know what the revenue looks like. With that on the table, then management can see why we’re presenting a certain number. It’s a game; let’s just cut the game and get to the deal.

I’ve had management tell me they’re happy when talent has agents because the agent can have a difficult conversation with a client that a manager can’t.

I encourage my clients to do many different things. Fred Toucher, who was here yesterday, he has like 13 things going, not just the radio show. Angela Yee, she’s working all the time to get on social media to promote her brands — her coffee, her juice line. Does she want to be doing that all the time? Probably not. But she knows how important it is. I hate to say it, but those willing to work seven days a week are the ones who will be the most successful.

Kevin Belbey – CAA
I’ll often tell people, you don’t need an agent. But I’ll also say we’d like to work with you because we believe in your talent. For management, we want to make a deal that’s good for them as well. I think it’s important for them to realize we’re partners. A good negotiation should be, everyone wins. We want to cut through a lot of the B.S. and get right to getting the best deal done.

I tell my clients they can be influencers. Maybe you only have 500 followers or 2000 followers, but you can reach people that way and need to. They need to be involved in other things outside their shows, they need to have other things going on.

Mark Lepselter – MAXX Sports & Entertainment Group
It’s important to be an enhancement to talent’s career. It’s also important to bridge the gap between your client and management. Sometimes, that means protecting them from themselves in some aspects.

2:50-3:25 – The Art of Storytelling presented by

  • Jim Cutler – Jim Cutler New York

People are deciding in the first 20 seconds of watching something whether or not to stay with something. They quickly decide if it’s worth their time.

Why care about storytelling? Everyone on social media fancies themselves a storyteller. And everyone is trying to get better at it to make money. Storytelling is really all we have when we’re creating content.

Sunday Night Football producer Fred Gaudelli says they prepare 25 to 50 stories ready to use for a given telecast. But the game is the primary story; that has to be the priority. We can’t layer in stories that don’t have anything to do with what’s happening. If it doesn’t fit, we don’t use it. Only jam in what’s appropriate.

Looking at visual storytelling, images alone can be powerful without sound — or accompanied by music instead. Images show you who the people are in the story without needing to tell you why or add to what’s already seen. But look at video games and how they’ve changed sports. Skycams and drones have completely changed sports coverage on TV. The “gameification” of sports storytelling.

But for radio and podcasts, the fundamentals of content have not changed. As Amplifi Media’s Steven Goldstein says, the speed it gets to the consumer has changed. If content is average and has no heat, it’s disposable. Another example provided comes from Colin Cowherd, who illustrated Manny Ramirez’s relaxed approach at the plate with an audio bit joking about Ramirez’s mindset, rather than just giving play-by-play or statistics.

Video of South Park’s Trey Parker and Matt Stone speaking to a college class is shown in which they explain the beats of storytelling and how to keep it compelling and moving along. If you have “and then” between moments, “you’re fucked.” Yet if it’s “therefore” or “but,” the story is moving forward. The viewer wants to follow along. “This happened. Therefore, this happened. But this happened.” It’s not just saying what happened. Each action begets the next one.

Authenticity is vital. You have to be real. You can’t show the audience the sell. If they see the sell, they’re turned off. Stephen A. Smith is authentic to the audience. Someone else who’s authentic is ABC’s David Muir. Colin Cowherd explains how admitting when he’s wrong comes across as authentic to the audience. He knows he’s “in theater,” but has to come across as a real person.

A brief timeout for attendees to recharge, and then we’re back to close up Day 1 of the Summit with two more excellent sessions.

3:40-4:15 – The Value of Traditional Media presented by

  • Ariel Epstein – Yahoo Sports
  • John Jastremski – The Ringer
  • Kazeem Famuyide – MSG Networks
  • Demetri Ravanos – Barrett Sports Media

Ariel Epstein – Yahoo Sports
On doing gambling content on terrestrial radio – The change was getting gambling language into regular sports news and conversation. It’s not just “picks, picks, picks.” I say how the line moves according to the sports news of the day, like Trae Young not playing for the Hawks tonight. How do you build an audience and get them to trust you? It’s having good information.

I used to post my picks from the night before to show how I did. But I realized that people don’t care about that. They want to know about what’s happening tonight. What can they hear from me that’s different from what they’re getting everywhere else?

Kazeem Famuyide – MSG Networks
On working directly with athletes – We can eliminate the filter with athletes and work directly with them, let them show their personalities and interests. Like we talked to Trae Young and got his 15 favorite songs, then we created a playlist. He’s more accessible to the audience.

On being accessible as media – You have to be yourself. People can see that. And MSG lets me do that too. I can show up in a suit one day, Jordans the next. But it’s all me and people see that.

John Jastremski – The Ringer
I want my content to be conversational, like you and me at the bar. I don’t want to act or come across like I know more than you. I don’t want people assuming I think that either.

You have to understand what buzz is surrounding your particular work environment. You need a sixth sense. If you know your town, you know what they want to hear. The NFL and NBA are always going to play. But you can’t assume either. What’s the story in your town?

On being accessible as media – Social media has changed how people see media. Like they know “J.J.’s a gambling guy” or “J.J’s a Knicks guy.” I didn’t know that about the people on TV growing up. I couldn’t ask Bob Costas a question on Twitter back then.

Being in a lot of different places, doing a lot of different things is crucial. You can’t be defined as one thing.

4:15-4:50 – Programmer’s MasterClass presented by

  • Justin Craig – ESPN Radio
  • Scott Shapiro – FOX Sports Radio
  • Mark Chernoff – Formerly of WFAN
  • Jason Barrett – Barrett Sports Radio

Justin Craig – ESPN Radio
How to select content – Play to the biggest part of your audience. The biggest names and topics. And then reset. What is the expectation of your audience? When they turn on your show, what are they expecting? And are you filling that expectation? Like what’s the first thing you think of with Stephen A. Smith? Yelling? So if he’s talking in a real quiet voice, they’re wondering what’s going on.

On ratings – I check them every day and share them with the talent. They’re our report card. Which markets are listening, which aren’t.

Scott Shapiro – Fox Sports Radio
On the clock and length of breaks – Ultimately, we’re in the ratings game. So the fewer off-ramps you can give the audience to go some place else, the better. There are so many options now. You’re on the phone. You’re going somewhere. We want to give listeners as few opportunities as possible to go away.

Mark Chernoff – Formerly of WFAN
I don’t like to overmanage. I don’t want to tell people to stick to the clock. For new talent, emphasizing the fundamentals are good. But it all revolves around sports. Content is king. It’s like being in music. You can play a deep cut. But if you play all deep cuts, you lose the audience.

I got the “POKE” theory of success from Eric Spitz (from SiriusXM). Passion, Opinion, Knowledge, and Entertainment. If a host has those four things, they’re going to be a success.

On simulcasting for digital and video – I tell the talent, remember you’re on radio, not TV. Don’t play to the camera.

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Barrett Blogs

Is Sports Journalism Still Worth Paying For?

“I know many like to declare print being dead. I’m sorry I’m not one of them. Adults still enjoy reading.”

Jason Barrett

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Courtesy: Don Nguyen

I’ve been thinking about this column all week because it’s a topic I’m passionate about and curious to hear the responses to. For starters, let me pose a few questions to you. Does quality journalism still matter? Is it worth paying for? Do advertisers see enough return on their investments with print outlets through associations with influential writers, publications and branded content? Are consumers hungry to read the full details of a story or are they satisfied with the cliff notes version and absorbing messages that fit inside of 140-280 characters?

The world we’re in is saturated with content. Attention spans are rapidly shrinking. Social media is both to blame and bless for that. The positive is that we’re exposed to more content than ever before. This means more opportunity to reach people and grow businesses. The challenge of course is standing out.

People listen, read and watch less of one thing now, opting for variety during the time they have available. The issue with that is that it often leads to being less informed. I know many like to declare print being dead. I’m sorry I’m not one of them. Adults still enjoy reading. I see nearly three million people do it on this website alone and we’re small potatoes compared to mainstream brands. Clearly people like to learn.

I raise this topic because last week, Peter King announced his retirement although he left open the door for side projects. After forty plus years of writing the gold standard of NFL columns, King revealed he wanted to slow down and invest his time in other areas of life. Among his considerations for the future after taking a breather are teaching.

In a podcast interview with Richard Deitsch, King said “We may love this column but I doubt that it made enough money for NBC to pay what they were paying me. I don’t think words are very profitable anymore. It’s a sad thing but it’s what’s happened to our business.”

Later in the conversation, King discussed the difficulty he might face if speaking to students about whether or not to pursue working in the media industry. He acknowledged that the business is bad right now. However, he pointed out that if you can write and read, and be an intelligent thinking contributing member of society, there are a lot of jobs you can do beyond being a writer for a paper covering the NFL. You can teach English, work in PR or for a team or league website. But journalism is different now, and though it’s not impossible to do, having flexibility is important.

I agreed with most of King’s remarks and thought about the two different ways people might respond to them.

If you’re in agreement with Peter, you’ll point to the reduction in industry jobs, the changes in salaries, the lack of trust in media outlets, the economic uncertainty facing traditional operators, the shrinking ability to uncover truth, and the data that frequently supports video being hot, and print not so much.

Those who disagree will list the New York Times and The Athletic as examples of print brands that still matter. They’ll also mention the surge in newsletters, the arrival of new online outlets, and the daily communication between millions of people each day on social media, much of it revolving around conversations created or supported by text.

Where I sit is somewhere in between.

First, the notion that it’s harder now than before is one I’ll challenge. When I entered the business, I had to mail letters, send cassette tapes, and wait months for a response. There was no internet or opportunity to create a podcast, Substack, website or video to build an audience. I had to be selected by someone to have a chance to work. There were thousands like me who wanted a way in and were at the mercy of decision makers preferring my resume over someone else’s. I did exactly what King said on the podcast when he mentioned having to do other jobs to support yourself while pursing a dream.

Where I agree with King is when he mentioned words not being as profitable anymore. Are print reporters and columnists going to make what they once did? Probably not. There will always be exceptions just as there are in television and radio, but if you think you’re going to do one specific job and making a financial killing on it, prepare to be disappointed. Today, you better be able to wear different hats and create a lot of content in multiple places. Earning a lot for doing a little is a way of the past.

The one area where I’ll differ is when it comes to advertising. I believe there’s untapped value for brands in print. Recall with the written word remains strong. There’s also less advertising clutter in written stories than audio and video programming blocks. Advertisers may not seek out traditional print advertising anymore but branded content, newsletter associations, and social media placements remain valued.

What I admire greatly about King is that he evolved over the years. His written work on SI was must-read but that didn’t stop him from leaping into the online space and launching MMQB. The arrival of that microsite was done at the right point in time, and when SI began to change, King didn’t hang on, choosing to make the bold move and jump to NBC. Upon his arrival, he started contributing on television, podcasts, and expanding his profile on social media.

What you should take away from Peter is that you’ve got to constantly examine the business, and understand when it’s time to pivot, even if it means leaving your comfort zone. You also have to recognize that things are going to change and your job description will likely be one of them. If you stay married to what you once did, you’ll be in a tough spot. If you roll with the punches and embrace what’s new, you’ll survive and thrive.

You also have to understand that you’re going to be tied further to what you produce. Does your presence and performance grow advertising revenue? Are you speaking on behalf of brands and helping them move product? Do you grow subscriptions or readership to levels that make it easy for a company to invest significantly in you? Talent is subjective. Results aren’t. Those who create quality while boosting the bottom line will remain in demand.

Remember this in a few years when artificial intelligence becomes a bigger part of content creation and discovery. Those who adapt to it and work with it will be just fine. Those who reject it will be searching for new career paths. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. There’s better stability in other industries. But there’s nothing like creating content around the world of sports and media. It just requires adaptability and being comfortable with being uncomfortable.

BSM Summit Update:

In ten days we unite the sports media business in New York City for the 2024 BSM Summit. All of the sessions are now complete. I’m excited to add Natalie Marsh, General Manager of Lotus Communications in Las Vegas, Cody Welling, Station Manager of 97.1 The Fan in Columbus, and Stephanie Prince, Vice President and Market Manager of Good Karma Brands West Palm Beach to our schedule. The full agenda for both days is posted on BSMSummit.com.

In addition, I’m thrilled to share that we’ll have a few special appearances at the ESPN Radio After Party on Wednesday March 13th. Joining us on-site will be Evan Cohen, Chris Canty and Michelle Smallmon of UnSportsmanLike, Freddie Coleman and Harry Douglas of Freddie & Harry, and Chris Carlin from Carlin vs. Joe.

Thumbs Up:

Chris Mortensen: Rarely does the sports media industry collectively agree on anything but you won’t find much disagreement on Chris Mortensen. He was a special talent and human being. I was fortunate to see it firsthand as a producer at ESPN Radio. I then enjoyed many interactions with Mort as a program director lining up calls on the radio stations I ran. It didn’t matter what job you did or where you worked, Chris treated you well. His work was hall of fame worthy but it was the manner in which he interacted with people that truly made him a legend. Rest in peace, Mort. I’m sure the next wave of conversations with John Clayton are going to be amazing.

Mike Felger: It would’ve been easy to pile on and publicly root for a competitor to fail and fold. Instead, Felger took the high road, acknowledging that he’s rooting for WEEI to come out of bankruptcy in good shape. That’s what smart business people. Mike is comfortable in his own skin. He has the highest rated show in Boston and having a competitor to compete against as well as a potential landing spot when contracts come up is never a bad thing. Besides, why would anyone want to see friends and respected professionals lose an opportunity to work or listeners given less choice for sports talk entertainment? Nice job, Mike.

iHeartmedia: The company’s fourth quarter results were down year-to-year but they were above prior projections. iHeart also gained 16.6% growth in podcasting revenues during Q4, and just got stronger by luring Stephen A. Smith’s podcast away from Audacy. A pretty good week for Bob Pittman and his lieutenants.

Sportico: Jason Clinkscales is an easy guy to root for. He’s written quality content for Awful Announcing, is a sharp guy who enjoys the industry, and after a year full of personal tragedies, he deserved a break. That came last week when Sportico hired him as a reporter and editor on their breaking news team. Well done Sportico. Looking forward to reading the first piece.

National Association of Broadcasters: Creating buzz for conferences isn’t easy but the NAB’s recent announcement of having Daniel Anstandig of Futuri Media present a first-of-its-kind presentation at its April show alongside Ameca, an autonomously AI-powered humanoid robot has certainly increased conversation and intrigue. I’ll be in attendance for the event and am curious like many. I’m just hoping Joe Rogan isn’t right when he suggested this week that robots will jump out of an aircraft carrier with machine guns and do damage.

Thumbs Down:

Kroenke Sports and Entertainment: This isn’t a shot at the company. It’s more about losing a talented media executive. Matt Hutchings, the company’s former COO and EVP was a key part of developing Altitude Sports. Under his watch, the Nuggets and Avalanche won titles, and the company cemented its position in the local sports radio space.

The dispute with Comcast over airing Nuggets and Avs games is well documented, and Hutchings will get some of the blame for the teams not being broadcast on local TV but I tend to believe decisions of that magnitude land at ownership’s doorstep. Regardless, KSE is weaker today than yesterday due to losing Hutchings.

New York Jets: I get it. 98.7 ESPN New York moving away from the FM dial provides a concern for the franchise, and in other cities, football does perform well on classic rock stations. I just see the fit with Q104.3 as an odd one. If Aaron Rodgers returns and the Jets finally take off the way their fans hoped they would last year, it’s going to feel strange hearing their games locally on a channel that has little content time dedicated to the team beyond game days.

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Erika Ayers and Spike Eskin Led Barstool Sports and WFAN to Success But Their Exits Raise Questions

“Rod and Spike understand the business. They know people are going to ask these questions.”

Jason Barrett

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There were two big management moves last week that have sports media folks talking. First was Erika Ayers Badan announcing her exit from Barstool Sports as the brand’s CEO. Second was the news of Spike Eskin returning to Sportsradio WIP and exiting his role as the VP of Programming for WFAN and CBS Sports Radio.

Let’s start with Erika. What she did for Barstool was spectacular. In 2016, I thought Barstool had a strong understanding of social media, unique talent and voices, podcasts that were cutting through, and a connection with younger fans that traditional outlets couldn’t deliver. They also produced events that drew a lot of public attention. But I didn’t view Barstool as a buttoned up business capable of generating hundreds of millions of dollars. Erika Nardini aka Erika Ayers Badan and Dave Portnoy deserve credit for making it one.

Erika told me at our 2020 BSM Summit that Barstool didn’t have a P&L sheet when she joined. She had to build systems, hire staff, grow the sales arm of Barstool, and help Dave Portnoy find investors. What followed were marketing deals with major brands, content partnerships with different media outlets, a massive investment from Penn National, and a changed perception of Barstool as a mainstream player. They were no longer just the cool, rebellious brand on social media and the internet that gave no f’s and generated attention. They became game changers in the sports content space.

So why leave?

If Barstool is now clear of restrictions and able to operate without investor influence, that should be enticing, right? In her farewell video Erika said that she felt she accomplished what she set out to do. I understand and appreciate that. But I can’t help but wonder if less structure and investor involvement made it less appealing to stay. She did join the brand after The Chernin Group got involved not before it.

I have no inside knowledge on this, and I’m not suggesting Barstool won’t continue growing and dominating. They likely will. It just raises questions about how the brand will manage sales, PR, critical internal and external issues, and battles with suitors when they try to lure away Barstool’s on-air and sales talent.

The business end of Barstool appears weaker today than it did a week ago. That’s more of a testament to what Erika did than a knock on anyone still there. To grow revenue the way she did the past 8 years speaks volumes about her skill as an executive. Wherever she lands next, it’s likely she’ll make a difference.

Will it be easier to do business with Barstool moving forward? Time will tell. I don’t expect they’ll make it easier for media outlets like ours to cover them. But if I’ve learned anything in eight years of following them it’s don’t ever bet against Dave Portnoy. Too often people have. Each time he’s proven them wrong. Portnoy has built a powerhouse brand, and grown the business by zigging when others zagged. But how Barstool moves forward without Erika will be of great interest to many in 2024.

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Spike Eskin will be leaving WFAN and his position as the VP of Programming for Audacy to return to WIP and co-host the afternoon show. On paper this is a great move for WIP. Spike understands Philadelphia and WIP’s audience, he lives and breathes Philly sports, and has a great rapport with the entire lineup. He’s maintained an on-air presence through his Rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast, and I believe that moving into a host role alongside Ike Reese and Jack Fritz will be a seamless transition for all involved. Being in his mid to late 40’s, he’s also got plenty years ahead of him to cement his spot as an on-air talent. I expect Spike, Ike and Jack to do well together.

But to exit WFAN and the top programming role at Audacy in less than three years, raises a few questions. Why is this opportunity better for Spike than the programming role he just held? Was he happy at WFAN? Were folks happy with him at WFAN? Many have opinions about WFAN’s changes the past few years. Some love the fresher approach. Others don’t. That’s what makes sports radio in New York fun, people care.

As a follower of WFAN for over thirty years, it’s a different brand than the one I grew up on. That’s not a bad thing by the way. I’m almost 50. If Spike and Chris Oliviero programmed to please the Mike and the Mad Dog crowd that’d be a mistake. Attention spans are shorter, content options are larger, digital is more important and the days of a city flocking to the radio at 1pm to hear a host’s first words are gone. Judging from the ratings, revenue, and turnout for Boomer and Gio’s last live event, the station is doing well. They’ve got a lot of talent, a stronger digital game, and they’ll continue thriving. Spike deserves credit for the brand’s progress.

But why is a hosting role and less influence over a brand better for Eskin? Spike has been a part of WIP’s afternoon show before. Though leading the show vs. being the third mic is a different animal. He also programmed the station really well. In fact, Spike did such a good job at WIP that it landed him the top programming position in sports radio. Is there a personal part to this given that his father made afternoons in Philly must-listen for 25 years? Or is it about the personal relationship he has with Ike and Jack?

And how does this work from a financial standpoint? It’s likely that Spike was paid more to lead Audacy New York than Jon Marks was to host WIP’s afternoon show. If that’s the case, and nothing changes for Eskin, and WIP just adds payroll, does it affect what Chris Oliviero can spend on Audacy New York’s next brand leader? I can’t see that happening at all. Chris is going to make sure he has what he needs to land the right leader in New York.

Finances only come up because it’s known that Audacy is going through a bankruptcy process. Adding expenses right now seems unlikely. However, to add someone with Eskin’s skill and track record at a station where he previously shined is smart business, especially when you consider that he can win as a host and programmer if needed. That’s going to naturally lead to folks asking ‘will Spike eventually host PM drive and program WIP? If so, what does that mean for current PD Rod Lakin?’ ‘What happens when talent at WIP that Spike had a hand in hiring don’t like what Lakin suggests or if WIP’s ratings decline?’

Spike told Joe DeCamara and Jon Ritchie that’s not on his radar and the idea of joining the afternoon show was raised by PD Rod Lakin. Some of you may read that and be surprised that Lakin would suggest it. But Rod stepped into the role that Eskin previously held. I’m sure they’ve talked plenty the past few years. If their relationship is strong that should help. I don’t know it well enough to say if it is or isn’t. This move suggests Lakin’s more concerned with strengthening WIP than worrying about himself or industry chatter.

If anyone can navigate the situation and make it work, it’s Rod Lakin. He’s calm, cool, collected, smart and doesn’t get flustered by noise and pressure. I know this because we’ve known each other for over a decade, and I introduced him to folks years ago, which led to him landing the Philly role. If you read Derek Futterman’s piece on Angelo Cataldi last month, the Philly icon shared a small example of what makes Rod a great leader.

But Rod and Spike understand the business. They know people are going to ask these questions. The flurry of texts and emails I received about this last week was insane. I’m sure it was even louder on the local level. Many will suggest that Audacy will use this as an opportunity to eventually reduce expenses and stay strong by having Eskin handle two roles. Only those involved know the answers but one thing I know is that Rod Lakin knows how to program. If he’s not supported there, he’ll have plenty of interest elsewhere.

In a perfect world, Spike excels in afternoons, Rod leads WIP to greater success, and WFAN finds a great leader to move the brand forward. But until the smoke clears, noise will fill the air in the big apple and city of brotherly love.

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Thumbs Up:

Colin Dunlap, 93.7 The Fan: While on the air last week, Dunlap received a call from a 65-year old woman named Colette. She told the Pittsburgh host that she and her husband were disabled and after undergoing 28 surgeries, she was physically struggling to clear her walkway of snow. Hearing her story moved Dunlap to react. He then called on the audience to step up and help. Shortly thereafter, one of 93.7 The Fan’s listeners, a gentleman named Tom, phoned in, and made the drive over to help out a fellow listener. That’s the power of live radio at its best, all possible by Dunlap reading and reacting to the situation perfectly.

Clay Travis, Outkick: Whether you love him or hate him, Clay delivers strong opinions and commands your attention. A perfect example was his Friday night reaction video to the demise of Sports Illustrated. If you haven’t watched it, it’s worth checking out. It’s nearing one million views at the time of my writing this.

VSiN: The sports betting network based out of Las Vegas recently redesigned its website and the new look and feel of it is excellent. Clean throughout, easy to navigate, and rich of content. Nice work by Bill Adee all involved.

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Thumbs Down:

Sports Illustrated: Laying off the majority of its staff was bad enough, but to notify people by email or have them find out on social media shows a lack of class and a disgusting approach to running a business. All of those traits by the way are the exact opposite of what SI once stood for – RESPECT.

During SI’s glory days, the content was must read. But in recent years, the outlet landed in the hands of operators who valued clicks over quality. Many predicted and expected this once storied brand to crumble. Unfortunately, the naysayers were proven right.

To those affected, I’m sorry for the crummy news. Some will rebound and help other established brands. Some will launch their own platforms or exit the industry. Anyone looking to do future freelancing work is invited to email [email protected].

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BSM Summit Update:

I’m happy to share that Good Karma Brands president Steve Politziner, Edison Research co-founder and president Larry Rosin and ESPN Chicago program director Danny Zederman have been added to our lineup. We’ve also finalized two of our four awards recipients and are working on a third. I’m hoping to share those details soon along with a few other high profile additions to this year’s show. I’ll be heading to Las Vegas during Super Bowl week, which is when we reveal our BSM Top 20 of 2023, and after that I’m hoping to finalize our schedule so it can be released by the end of February.

I know everyone likes waiting until the last minute to buy tickets and reserve hotel rooms. If you want to avoid being left out though, the time to act is now. Everything you need is posted on BSMSummit.com. Our deadline for hotel room reservations is February 13th. We’ve also sent out free ticket contests by email to the advertising community and tri-state area colleges. We’ll have two more this week for executives and programmers. Be sure to check your spam folder just in case it doesn’t arrive in your inbox.

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2-Seconds to Vent:

Jimmy Pitaro, Eric Shanks, John Skipper, Nick Khan, Colin Cowherd, Paul Finebaum, Clay Travis, Craig Carton, Adam Schein, Michael Kay, and Fred Toucher all have something in common with many others across the industry. They’re accomplished professionals with plenty on their plate yet when contacted, they always respond. Most of the time, they do so quickly. That’s greatly appreciated.

If those tasked with running the largest media companies in America, and hosting shows with content, advertising, and audience commitments can find time to respond, why is it so hard for other professionals to do the same? If you don’t want to be featured on BSM, speak at a Summit, market with us or answer a question, just say ‘not interested‘. It takes two seconds. The best in the business understand the value of relationships and promotion. Unfortunately, many do not. I don’t use this platform to draw attention to these issues but sometimes I wonder, should I?

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Original Projects:

On BNM this week we’re doing five days of features on NPR professionals as part of ‘Public Radio Week‘. It’s not easy pulling it off but we’re trying some different stuff. Next week we launch ‘Where Are They Now‘ on BSM. Peter Schwartz will have the first feature next Tuesday. Coming up in February, we drop the BSM Top 20, Derek Futterman’s ‘Day Spent With‘ series which includes spending a day with professionals across different areas of the industry, and we’ll profile a number of black voices on BNM as part of the brand’s focus on Black History month. I hope you’ll check them out whenever time allows.

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Recommended Viewing:

If you’re looking for a movie to watch during the week, check out Blackberry if you haven’t already done so. The film is about the rise and fall of the Blackberry phone, and I thought it was excellent. It had a similar feel to the movie Jobs, and the series Super Pumped: The Battle For Uber. Worth your time if you’ve got two hours available to watch something different than live games or sports programming.

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If you have a question or comment you’d like addressed in a future column, please send it to [email protected]. That same email address can be used to pass along press releases, interview requests or news tips. Thanks for reading!

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Justin Craig, Chris Kinard, Mary Menna Added to 2024 BSM Summit Lineup

“What I’ve always enjoyed about the BSM Summit is that it showcases speakers from many different areas of the industry.”

Jason Barrett

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To kick off 2024, we’re announcing the additions of three more talented broadcasters to our 2024 BSM Summit. More on that shortly. The Summit takes place March 13-14 at the Ailey Theater in New York City. For tickets, hotel rooms, and additional details, visit BSMSummit.com. Those interested in sponsorship opportunities, contact Stephanie Eads. A number of items are already claimed but she can tell you what’s left. Reach her by email at [email protected] or by phone at 415-312-5553.

What I’ve always enjoyed about the Summit is that it showcases speakers from different areas of the industry. We’ve featured top talent, researchers, agents, digital leaders, podcasting experts, ratings analysts, tech builders, play by play voices, and of course, program directors and market managers. There’s many ways to succeed, and no better way to learn than to hear from folks who consistently win.

In the sports audio world, 98.5 The Sports Hub, 106.7 The Fan, and ESPN Radio are highly respected brands. The Hub and The Fan are dominant in Boston and Washington D.C.. ESPN Radio meanwhile maintains a strong position as one of the top national audio brands. All feature strong leaders, and we’re fortunate to have all of them represented in NYC.

It’s a pleasure to welcome Beasley Boston Market Manager Mary Menna to the Summit. This is her first appearance at the conference. Mary is responsible for managing The Hub’s business, currently the top revenue generating brand in all of sports radio. I’m excited to have her offer her insights on a panel with Chris Oliviero and Scott Sutherland. More details on the session, date/time closer to the show.

On the programming side, it’s great to welcome back Chris Kinard of 106.7 The Fan, and Justin Craig of ESPN Radio. Both will be involved in programming panels at the show.

CK has helped lead The Fan and Team 980 to consistent growth in the nation’s capital. He’s a forward thinking type of leader with a great feel for the current and future challenges facing the business. I’m looking forward to having him share a few lessons he’s learned with the rest of the room.

For my friend JC, he’s seen ESPN Radio evolve for the better part of two decades. Liked and respected by most, he’s valued and trusted to guide ESPN Radio’s day-to-day operations. Given the network’s change in focus, talent, and structure, he’ll have great insights to share on where national sports audio is moving.

Our speaker list now sits at twenty. It will grow much more over the next two months as we reveal other additions to the show. We’ll also be announcing our award winners, and a few other surprises. This is a fun and informative two-day event for sports media professionals. If you haven’t joined us before, I hope you’ll do so this time. Everything you need to know prior to the event will be available at BSMSummit.com.

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